@Rogean, surely this is not the ToV raid scene you intended after 4/2019

[karadin]

Originally Posted by titanshub [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unrooting the dragons will be an absolute disaster. All those of you who think you're in the inner circle may be surprised to find out that it's easier to share with less people. The same 12-20 people will fte all of the dragons within seconds providing no opportunities for people to even learn how to compete against them. Even on quakes the tov dragons will be pulled and dead so quickly that the same force will then be able to contest everything in kunark as well. It's a different game entirely, and one that just won't include most of us.

The problem with training in tov could easily be resolved by the staff through the existing rules if they wanted to do it. They don't and I'm not sure what that says about the staff other than they disagree or don't understand the effects their rule changes have had on the raid environment. Today's disaster of the meta in rooted dragons is not an inevitable outcome it's a consequence of allowing detoxx and furor to train whomever they want because they were on the tracks. I've watch them get every benefit of the doubt to absurdity while nobody else is afforded the same consideration.

There are lots of good people in vanquish. I know many of them through their former involvement in kittens. I certainly don't mind there being other options in the world of contesting all the dragons all the time. I never have. Competition at the high end can be a healthy thing for blue server. My issue with Vanquish is their leadership and a subset of their core that's willing to say and do anything to win. They harass our people (including furor), they follow us around in game and out trying to make playing p99 so distasteful we leave. They harass us in tells, ooc, and in say at every opportunity. They are poor winners and poor losers simultaneously. We have watched them train us and seriously set us back on quakes and tell us to get bent. Mock us for trying new things and failing. It's gross, and it has seriously destroyed the community we left on blue server. Shame on everyone for allowing it to happen. Have a merry christmas I guess.

This really is incredibly melodramatic, Spacepope. If you were trained on a quake there is a raid concern channel for a reason. If you are being harassed file a pnp against those people. We kill dragons in ToV and are sometimes grumpy in UN. We aren’t some spawns of satan out to ruin your community. Kittens had a good run with Riot in ToV but for whatever reason that alliance appears to have faltered. Mobs were being trained away long before Vanquish was around. Competing for dragons is incredibly fun and we simply enjoy pushing the mechanics of this game to their limits.

I wish you the best and I also hope you will reach out to me directly if we can help you in any way. It’s great to see more casual guilds like Kittens getting their share during draft weeks, quakes, and occasionally on natural spawns. It seems like you’re getting more loot now in the current meta than you were when riot were top dogs.

[titanshub]

Originally Posted by karadin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This really is incredibly melodramatic, Spacepope. If you were trained on a quake there is a raid concern channel for a reason. If you are being harassed file a pnp against those people. We kill dragons in ToV and are sometimes grumpy in UN. We aren’t some spawns of satan out to ruin your community. Kittens had a good run with Riot in ToV but for whatever reason that alliance appears to have faltered. Mobs were being trained away long before Vanquish was around. Competing for dragons is incredibly fun and we simply enjoy pushing the mechanics of this game to their limits.

I wish you the best and I also hope you will reach out to me directly if we can help you in any way. It’s great to see more casual guilds like Kittens getting their share during draft weeks, quakes, and occasionally on natural spawns. It seems like you’re getting more loot now in the current meta than you were when riot were top dogs.

Kittens has never had any desire to compete for every mob every single week. In the past we have competed against Riot and found it to be quite fun. What's not fun is competing against Vanquish. Why do you imagine that is? As much as you guys go on about competition it looks from my perspective to be a lot more like systematic harassment of everyone else on the server. There is a line somewhere and you are so far over it that its shameful that the server allows it to happen.

Call it melodramatic if you like. To me what this is about is calling a spade a spade. If you want to change then I think that starts with having a little respect for this server and the other people who play here.

[Loke]

Originally Posted by titanshub [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why do you imagine that is? As much as you guys go on about competition it looks from my perspective to be a lot more like systematic harassment of everyone else on the server. There is a line somewhere and you are so far over it that its shameful that the server allows it to happen.

Some specifics would probably help you make your case. If this "harassment" is as pervasive as you make it sound, certainly there are a few examples you could share.

I've been around the server for a long time and I can say without a doubt right now is among the most civil it has ever been between top guilds and the raid scene as a whole. If you think anything going on right now is "systematic harassment", you'd have needed a grief counselor to handle p99 back in classic and kunark eras.

[karadin]

Originally Posted by titanshub [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kittens has never had any desire to compete for every mob every single week. In the past we have competed against Riot and found it to be quite fun. What's not fun is competing against Vanquish. Why do you imagine that is? As much as you guys go on about competition it looks from my perspective to be a lot more like systematic harassment of everyone else on the server. There is a line somewhere and you are so far over it that its shameful that the server allows it to happen.

Call it melodramatic if you like. To me what this is about is calling a spade a spade. If you want to change then I think that starts with having a little respect for this server and the other people who play here.

If you get trained you can always address it with me or another officer directly or address it in raid concerns. The fact that there are so few concerns between Vanquish and Kittens tells me that you're either declining to bring issues up or you are overstating your case. I can't think of many situations where we were directly competing against Kittens over the last year and a half. If we are it's generally at Aary or Fesh/Dagarn, maybe at LTK. Certainly when you were with Riot there were a few trains, but those were not one sided issues.

Maybe if you could provide some specifics it would help? Your callout to us in this thread was really vague.

[rkanon]

It is so funny these "fixes".
Rooting Dragons and nerfing the clickies accomplished one thing and one thing only.
You have to be big and have lots of players to dominate raids now.
Unroot the Dragons. Bring Clickies back to normal.
Suddenly small groups of 30 people can become competitive raid forces.
Suddenly you have room for 5 guilds competing WELL for all the end game mobs.
Competition=More Strategy=More Skill=More fun.

Now, whoever suggested the buffs being stripped at Zone in... while it would suck on many levels that would certainly make things interesting...

[Nibblewitz]

Please root the Ring War giants so they can't run to Thurgadin.

[derpcake2]

Unclassic stuff leading to more unclassic stuff.

meh/5 stars

[starkind]

The oRiGinaL the vision (tm) never even considered raids and 60 ppl doing shit.

At most two groups.

Mostly just a "living world" and each character has something unique it brings that plays into the world.

Necromancer is supposed to be the only "strong class" barely able to solo. And only efficiently, not dark blues or boss mobs at high level.

They caved in kunark and abandoned the vision entirely.

[Mblake1981]

Originally Posted by starkind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The oRiGinaL the vision (tm) never even considered raids and 60 ppl doing shit.

At most two groups.

Mostly just a "living world" and each character has something unique it brings that plays into the world.

Necromancer is supposed to be the only "strong class" barely able to solo. And only efficiently, not dark blues or boss mobs at high level.

They caved in kunark and abandoned the vision entirely.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Mblake1981]

Classic hill giant model in plate armor for Kael.
Altered model for Kunark forest giants (instead of Kunark hillbillies)

10/10