CoWorker said the border was at fault that non-vaxed ppl are dying

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Thorgrimm [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To protect themselves from dangerous situations

This is so very P99 right here: we've got a mix of people living in reality, and people living in the fantasy in their head.

First, the fantasy:

Originally Posted by https://www.safewise.com/resources/guns-at-home/

A 2018 poll by NBC News and the Wall Street Journal found 58% of Americans agree with the statement “gun ownership does more to increase safety by allowing law-abiding citizens to protect themselves.”1

... and, the reality:

Originally Posted by https://www.safewise.com/resources/guns-at-home/

2014 review in the Annals of Internal Medicine concluded having a firearm in the home, even when it’s properly stored, doubles your risk of becoming a victim of homicide and triples the risk of suicide.3

But (I hear you say), who cares if someone in my family kills themself, or me? I'm magically 100% certain no one in my family will ever have a mental health issue, and guns protect me from bad guys! NRA-funded studies told me so:

Originally Posted by https://www.nap.edu/read/10881

The results, summarized in Table 5-2, suggest that respondents who use firearms are less likely to be injured and lose property than those using other modes of protection. For example, while the overall rate of injury in robbery is 30.2, only 12.8 percent of those using a firearm for self-protection were injured.

... except, that data is from self-reported studies. Why? Because the NRA got laws passed that made it difficult for neutral parties to conduct neutral studies, and then they paid for private studies that supported their view. But when you ask people to self-report, they're likely to have bias:

Originally Posted by https://www.nap.edu/read/10881

The most obvious and fundamental limitation, however, is that the data on defensive gun uses are, as described above, potentially error ridden ... if respondents, concerned about being perceived as inept, are inclined to report successful forms of resistance but conceal ineffective forms, the estimated efficacy of self-defense will be biased upward.

So to recap, there's fantasy-land, where you start by believing whatever you want to believe, and try to cherry-pick questionable data from a clearly-biased source to support that take:

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... and then there's reality, where the simple truth is that if you have a gun in your home, you're far more likely to have it kill you or a family member than a "bad guy". Here's Jon Oliver talking about the reality of what happened when Australia got stricter gun control:

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[Thorgrimm]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is so very P99 right here: we've got a mix of people living in reality, and people living in the fantasy in their head.

First, the fantasy:



... and, the reality:



But (I hear you say), who cares if someone in my family kills themself, or me? I'm magically 100% certain no one in my family will ever have a mental health issue, and guns protect me from bad guys! NRA-funded studies told me so:



... except, that data is from self-reported studies. Why? Because the NRA got laws passed that made it difficult for neutral parties to conduct neutral studies, and then they paid for private studies that supported their view. But when you ask people to self-report, they're likely to have bias:



So to recap, there's fantasy-land, where you start by believing whatever you want to believe, and try to cherry-pick questionable data from a clearly-biased source to support that take:

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... and then there's reality, where the simple truth is that if you have a gun in your home, you're far more likely to have it kill you or a family member than a "bad guy". Here's Jon Oliver talking about the reality of what happened when Australia got stricter gun control:

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Triggered (No Pun Intended)

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But (I hear you say), who cares if someone in my family kills themself, or me? I'm magically 100% certain no one in my family will ever have a mental health issue, and guns protect me from bad guys! NRA-funded studies told me so:

Very good points sir

But you are discounting people's own autonomy and ability to care for one's mental health just like we care for medical

The reality is that there is a process, a buildup, leading to most suicide attempts. I work in behavioral health these past 14 years so I know quite a bit about them. First, there is a crisis, which is just defined as a level of life stress exceeding one's ability to cope. This causes what we call mental decompensation, which is when someone's mental state continues to worsen. Negative thought patterns develop, then someone's physical functioning is affected, such as their eating and sleep patterns, their energy level, their ability to care for hygiene, and they typically begin to isolate

The safety element typically begins with what we refer to as a deathwish, which is the thought that "I wish I would fall asleep and not wake up", or "I wish something would happen to take me out" but the person doesn't yet want to kill themselves. Then if they continue to decompensate, the thoughts shifts into thinking about how they could kill themselves. From there, the planning stages begin, and the end of life preparation begins, such as writing a suicide note, giving away one's possessions, some people start donating all their money, etc

There is no guarantee that this is the same process for everyone, some suicide attempts are more spontaneous, typically those are often influenced by drugs or alcohol

But for the majority of attempts, it is indeed a process, and along the way, the person has two things going for them: 1.) A basic human survival instinct. For example, the human jaw has enough strength to bite off your own finger right now. But you won't do it, because you have a survival instinct telling you not to. and 2.) What we call "motivations for living", which is most often the effect the suicide would have on family members, one's own personal goals, or their religion

Anywhere along this process, a person who recognizes they are decompensating mentally has the autonomy to be proactive and give up access to their firearm. This happens ALL the time in my job. People either do it themselves most often, or else they get professional help who strongly recommends they do it. EVEN IF, the person has zero supports in life, there's no one they can give it to, they can still contact police and request police take the firearm from them and give them a ticket, which they can later use to request it back

There are probably more people who recognize they are becoming suicidal, but are early on in this process I outlined, who give up their firearm temporarily, than ones that complete suicide with it. The reason it doesn't seem that way is because you aren't going to hear about the ones who give up their firearm and seek professional help, because that isn't news-worthy. Only the deaths are news-worthy

So TLDR: yes firearms are a risk. But most people don't just flip into a "I'm going to attempt suicide right now" like you or I would flip a lightswitch. It's a process, and along the way, people can and do become proactive and give up their firearms to their supports

[Botten]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So TLDR: yes firearms are a risk. But most people don't just flip into a "I'm going to attempt suicide right now" like you or I would flip a lightswitch. It's a process, and along the way, people can and do become proactive and give up their firearms to their supports

Mental health is just as bad as it has ever been the only difference is people have more access to weapons like AR-15s than say a Tommy Gun (price at $200 or equivalent to $3,500 in modern day).

And it isn't just violence in the home it could be at the grocery store, the club, church or work.

Mass shootings are way too prevalent:

Examples - Location in US - Date - Fatalities
Las Vegas Strip massacre - 10/1/2017 - 58
Orlando nightclub massacre - 6/12/2016 - 49
Virginia Tech massacre - 4/16/2007 - 32
Sandy Hook Elementary massacre - 12/14/2012 - 27
Texas First Baptist Church massacre - 11/5/2017 - 26
Luby's massacre - 10/16/1991 - 24
El Paso Walmart mass shooting - 8/3/2019 - 22
San Ysidro McDonald's massacre - 7/18/1984 - 22
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting - 2/14/2018 - 17
United States Postal Service shooting - 8/20/1986 - 15
San Bernardino mass shooting - 12/2/2015 - 14
Binghamton shootings - 4/3/2009 - 14
Fort Hood massacre - 11/5/2009 - 13
Columbine High School massacre - 4/20/1999 - 13
Virginia Beach municipal building shooting - 5/31/2019 - 12
Thousand Oaks nightclub shooting - 11/7/2018 - 12
Washington Navy Yard shooting - 9/16/2013 - 12
Aurora theater shooting - 7/20/2012 - 12
Tree of Life synagogue shooting - 10/27/2018 - 11
Boulder supermarket shooting - 3/22/2021 - 10
Santa Fe High School shooting - 5/18/2018 - 10
Red Lake massacre - 3/21/2005 - 10
GMAC massacre - 6/18/1990 - 10
San Jose VTA shooting - 5/26/2021 - 9
Dayton entertainment district shooting - 8/4/2019 - 9
Umpqua Community College shooting - 10/1/2015 - 9
Charleston Church Shooting - 6/17/2015 - 9
Hartford Beer Distributor shooting - 8/3/2010 - 9
Westroads Mall shooting - 12/5/2007 - 9
Atlanta day trading spree killings - 7/29/1999 - 9
101 California Street shootings - 7/1/1993 - 9
Standard Gravure shooting - 9/14/1989 - 9
FedEx warehouse shooting - 4/15/2021 - 8
Atlanta massage parlor shootings - 3/16/2021 - 8
Seal Beach shooting - 10/12/2011 - 8
Carthage nursing home shooting - 3/29/2009 - 8
Goleta postal shootings - 1/30/2006 - 8
Wedgwood Baptist Church shooting - 9/15/1999 - 8


The United States has had the most mass shootings of any country. In one 2017 study published in Time magazine by criminologist Adam Lankford, it was estimated that 31% of public mass shootings occur in the US, although it has only 5% of the world's population. The study concludes that “The United States and other nations with high firearm ownership rates may be particularly susceptible to future public mass shootings, even if they are relatively peaceful or mentally healthy according to other national indicators.”

And tho Adam Lankford's analyst was scrutinized he later revised his statement above with more research clarifying that although the United States is not significantly more likely than most other countries to have mass shootings that are committed by more than one person, such as the university massacre in Kenya, the United States from 1998-2012 did in fact have more than six times its global share of public mass shooters who attacked alone. Using the data from Lott and Moody's 2019 study of mass shootings, Lankford explains that "41 of all 138 public mass shootings by single perpetrators worldwide were committed in the United States. That represents 29.7%. Because America had in those years approximately 4.5% of the world's population (according to Lott and Moody's calculations), this indicates that based on their own data, the United States had more than six times its global share of public mass shooters who attacked alone (29.7/4.5 = 6.6).

Mass shootings have also been observed to be followed by an increase in the purchase of weapons, but does not seem to create an increased feeling of needing guns in either gun owners or non-owners.

It is crazy we can't sue gun companies.
But it looks like that if finally changing.

And who would of thought of all places, Mexico is suing the US gun companies.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/mexico-...rt-11628108966

[unsunghero]

One reality of human civilization is that if the cops ever lose control, vigilantes will take over. I saw it play out in some parts of Mexico. There were poor towns with almost no police presence, and the police that were there were corrupt. So the gangs were taking over. There was some gang with “Templar” in their name, that was extorting all businesses and killing people left and right. So honest citizens formed armed militias and began engaging the gangs. Saw it on the news. It was proof that no matter what, there are always more good people than bad

[Jibartik]

Good people are the ones that got us into this mess in the first place.

[HalflingSpergand]

Your fantasy is that its just that simple. If only people qould see things just like your everything will be great.
And your probably right, if everyone believed the same fantasy it would be smooth sailing .
That won't ever happen

[Pulgasari]

Lincoln made men free but Colt made them equal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[starkind]

yall remember that sherif who (ex sherif) who busted a cap in that guy for throwing popcorn on him (the guy was rude af tho)

(he was from florida)

did he get leathal or go to an old home? with shuffle boards?

that theatre in weslay chapels

[HalflingSpergand]

Damn guns