[Serious] Lets talk Top raiding guilds and their behavior

[Duckwalk]

Originally Posted by Sancta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you have any examples of Kittens attempting competitive targets? As in - the raid mob is up and more than 1 guild is going for it? Choosing not to compete with competitive targets excludes you from having a say creating competitive rules, especially if you don't even have a full grasp on the rules/mechanics/meta of being competitive.

Lol how many more times are we going to move the goalposts? Last I checked Kittens is right there in NToV competing with AG/Freedom for Aary onward. But for some reason this doesn’t count because Kittens refuse sock natural spawns?

[xdrcfrx]

Originally Posted by Sancta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you have any examples of Kittens attempting competitive targets? As in - the raid mob is up and more than 1 guild is going for it? Choosing not to compete with competitive targets excludes you from having a say creating competitive rules, especially if you don't even have a full grasp on the rules/mechanics/meta of being competitive.

KWSM often contests Aary -> to the right side, on quakes as well as natural respawn. I believe some time in the last month or two, we snaked an Aary out from AG / F. We were literally all up in the aary hall together the last server reset before the suspension. AG / F came and leapfrogged us on Fesh, but we got Dagarn (+1 drake - an aggressive engage for us). Obviously, given the number of times they've followed us and then leapfrogged to get FTE, AG / F must consider us at least competitive enough that they don't feel like they can leave mobs that are in our path, and still have them available for too long.

The further out from quakes we get, the less we usually do that as we just don't have the people/inclination to sock those timers are they get more and more spread out. We approach things somewhat differently, but don't mistake our choosing when we want to compete as an inability or unwillingness to do so. We just try to optimize our time spent.

It won't be long before you're moving the goalposts even further, saying "Only guilds that do a 6-guard Vulak engage deserve any say in the raid rules!" That is absurd. We all raid here, to one degree or another. The server enforced rules affect all of us, since we all have to abide by them. To be frank - even if we only contested outdoor Kunark dragons we should have a voice in the design and implementation of new rules. Stalling is a relevant factor on the Sev and Gore pulls. Faydedar is still an FTE mob that would lock us out of other content until it's dead.

Kittens doesn't need to also be suspended in order to deserve a voice in that process. The suspension is the punishment for the guilds that have acted so poorly as to cause an entire breakdown of the raid scene in the GM's eyes. Why should KWSM, who have not acted in this fashion, also be subject to that punishment?

[Ennewi]

“I ascribe to Mark Twain's theory that the last person who should be President is the one who wants it the most. The one who should be picked is the one who should be dragged kicking and screaming into the White House.”

― Bill Hicks

[Grapeape]

Originally Posted by MarauderOHHYEAH [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why should the people who play by the rules and go out of their way to treat people with respect and fairness have to join in on a raid ban to be considered relevant? The fact that kittens activity stayed out of the cluster fuck that is tov and chose to not be a part of the problem while still getting down dragons is more than enough reason to include them on server wide raid rule changes

The issue is that anyone not banned is incentivized to drag out any talks that could end that ban. Outside of a quake these 3 guilds kill the vast majority of raid targets. During this ban those mobs are going to the un-banned, obviously. It's irrefutable that those un-banned benefit from the "Toxic 3" being out of the picture for as long as possible. It's not a matter punishment. It's a matter of conflict of interest.

[Clazxiss]

Originally Posted by Grapeape [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The issue is that anyone not banned is incentivized to drag out any talks that could end that ban. Outside of a quake these 3 guilds kill the vast majority of raid targets. During this ban those mobs are going to the un-banned, obviously. It's irrefutable that those un-banned benefit from the "Toxic 3" being out of the picture for as long as possible. It's not a matter punishment. It's a matter of conflict of interest.

You blew my mind just now. I had not considered the non-banned fanning the forum flames of disaster! Further proof why instances should be made available on these beta servers! Let Green be the pure EQ experience that hardcores so brazenly crave!

[Ripqozko]

This thread is toxic.

[MarauderOHHYEAH]

Coming from the queen of toxic that means nothing

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by MarauderOHHYEAH [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Coming from the queen of toxic that means nothing

Toxicity

[Toomuch]

So, the topic of this thread is "[Serious] Lets talk Top raiding guilds and their behavior"

How does everyone feel like they have behaved in this thread?

[Jeni]

I don't see anyone annoyed at the behavior of the top guilds as fanning flames. Just like the staff the majority of the player base is fed up with this nonsense. If the top guilds have to sit in timeout because they can't play nicely then that is on them and has nothing to do with the rest of the server.