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  #91  
Old 10-29-2019, 12:04 AM
FungusTrooper FungusTrooper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Major weakness of that ruleset is similar to SZ, in that Good and Neutral teams are screwed over by their close geography and will be fighting tooth and nail all the time while Evils are more isolated to safely level. And that's not even factoring in Kunark for Evils. This is why it's so important to separate the teams geographically like I suggested. Also if the server launched in classic you would need a way for Evil team to have Monks. Warlike Rallos Zek worshipping Monks seems reasonable in that scenario.
Yeah, I'm sure it'd be more successful like this, but I'z nevah gonna teem up wif no weak goodie racez!
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  #92  
Old 10-29-2019, 12:09 AM
pink grapefruit pink grapefruit is offline
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what if the good/neut teams were softcoded, and could group together but not with evil team?
  #93  
Old 10-29-2019, 12:18 AM
Jibartik Jibartik is offline
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What if like all things evil 2/3rds had to ally up to protect us from it in a world war. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
  #94  
Old 10-29-2019, 12:29 AM
Danger Danger is offline
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Dulu lost me at gnome shadow knights, custom worshipable deities not currently in game (Terris thule) but most importantly only one faction has access to windstriker rangers which is just GG in team pvp.

I mean I love paladins, they're my favorite class, but windstriker+bard is a pvp gamechanger.

Not sold on removing /who versus letting people just use anom or roleplay

Moditifed nilbogs east vs west still making the most sense and is most balanced imho
Last edited by Danger; 10-29-2019 at 12:35 AM..
  #95  
Old 10-29-2019, 01:10 AM
Jibartik Jibartik is offline
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Alright this one checks all the boxes
[x] 3 balanced teams
[x] danger wont play
  #96  
Old 10-29-2019, 04:15 AM
Jimjam Jimjam is offline
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Iksar should just have their own team. Everyone hates them, they hate everyone.
  #97  
Old 10-29-2019, 07:53 AM
Danger Danger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Alright this one checks all the boxes
[x] 3 balanced teams
[x] danger wont play
as a man who can't handle forum banter, then went on a anti pvp posting spree due to it, i promise you that you'll get griefed off any future pvp box.

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the biggest cringe of all.

this is why we need teams, so teams can protect their more tender members such as Jibartik.
Last edited by Danger; 10-29-2019 at 07:57 AM..
  #98  
Old 10-29-2019, 08:32 AM
walfreyydo walfreyydo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
This is something I've theorycrafted a lot over the years. I think Sullon Zek's ruleset should be used as the starting point, with three hardcoded teams (no cross-teaming) and unrestricted level range PvP. I would also allow training as a tactic. Basically encourage a very laissez faire approach by the GMs: anything goes besides hacking, boxing, etc... It should be a feeling of anything goes total war between the teams. This also makes the server much easier to police by the GMs and discourages favoritism and rule lawyering. Three teams is better than two because it creates a much more chaotic and unpredictable atmosphere. But one of the big problems with SZ was that the Evil team enjoyed too many advantages over the Good and Neutral teams. They not only had better races, but they had the entire continent of Kunark as their home turf. So while the Goods and Neutrals were fighting each other constantly to level on Antonica, Odus and Faydwer, Evils could mostly level in peace on Kunark. So SZ played out with the Evil team snowballing the early leveling advantage Kunark provided into dominance for most of the server's life. So you'd need factors in place to prevent that from repeating itself.

Another consideration is that you really want to encourage zone control by each team, and so grouping teams geographically makes a lot of sense. This allows each team to have relatively safe low and mid-level zones to level in and naturally groups teams together to better defend against enemy incursions into their territory.

A third consideration is that each team needs to have access to each class if they are going to be equally viable for raiding. It's just not fair to deny a team Monks or Bards or Shaman and expect that endgame-focused players would bother to roll there knowing they would be screwed when it came to raiding.

All that being the case, I would divvy the teams up in the guise of a Norrathian civil war, with three factions fighting each other, which are:

Qeynos Team
- Humans
- Barbarians
- Erudites
- Half-Elves

This team would naturally control all of Odus and the area around Qeynos, extending from Halas through the Karanas and into Highpass Hold.

The Dark Team
- Ogres
- Trolls
- Dark Elves
- Iksar
- Traitor Humans

The Dark Team would naturally control all of Southern Antonica, from Grobb/Oggok to Lavastorm, including Freeport where the Traitor Humans would start.

The Shortie Team
- Dwarves
- Gnomes
- Wood Elves
- High Elves
- Halflings
- Traitor Barbarians
- Traitor Humans

The shorties would control all of Faydwer.

So you basically have a race war server with humans/Barbs as the wild card being able to defect to any team. This is necessary in order to give the Dark team access to Monks, Bards, Druids, Rangers and Paladins (mostly the first two) and the shortie team access to Monks, Shaman, Necros and Shadowknights (mostly the first two). The Qeynos team would already have access to all classes.

You would need to make some minor modifications for this ruleset to be viable. Though unclassic, I think these changes are minor enough and justifiable enough in the lore given the context of a Norrathian civil war disrupting the normal order of things and creating refugees:

1) Halflings allowed to start in Kelethin.
2) Shortie Humans and Barbs allowed to start in Kelethin.
3) Monk and Shaman trainers placed in Kelethin.
4) Necro and SK trainers placed near the chessboard in BB.

The end result is that each team would have access to every class and would have natural zone control over large contiguous areas of Norrath. You also preserve a degree of RP in that you have teams that make sense within the context of EQ lore. Humans (and the odd Barb Shaman) as wildcards make sense, with the other races being more locked in to their faction alignments/racial loyalties.

Loot mechanics: Item loot has its advantages (the emphasis on NO DROP gear adds a neat layer of complexity to the game) but overall it's just too much of a turn off for most players to stomach. I would instead suggest full coin loot and 50% XP loss for a death to a player within 5 levels of you. If you die to a player who cons red to you (>5 levels higher) you lose no XP and they are unable to loot anything from you. They can kill you but you don't lose anything. Loot and scoot should be up to the teams themselves to grant and police. A respected foe might be granted safe passage. A known shithead/griefer might get corpse camped for days. No guarantees. Corpse camping should be a legal tactic/option.

Kunark and Velious:
The expansions need to be treated judiciously, because they both offer challenges for PvP balance on a Teams server. Kunark is a problem because it is a natural safe haven for the Dark team. And Velious is a huge problem because high-end Velious gear basically destroys PvP balance by making melee classes unkillable. So the first team to get a bunch of NToV geared melees will steamroll everyone else. That being the case, I would propose the following:

1) Kunark release must be delayed at least 6 months, or even a full year as per the classic timeline. This would probably be enough to prevent the Dark team from completely dominating the continent, because by the time it comes out the other teams will have enough high level players to make successful incursions into Kunark.

2) Velious must be released in two stages: stage 1 would allow access to all of IC, EW and GD, as well as Thurgadin and Kael (minus AoW/Statue). This gives teams access to low-end Velious raid targets and Thurg armor. This stage would probably represent the ideal point of class balance for EQ PvP, and the server could easily be stopped here indefinitely. But it should pause at this stage for at least six months to a year. This would allow each team time to be competitive for acquiring a baseline of Velious gear. Then you could release stage 2 of Velious and open up the high-end ToV loots, which would start to be the end of the good PvP on the server but players would probably demand after getting bored of being stuck in stage 1.

Team balance: The Devs could promote team balance by giving the weakest team a standing 20% XP bonus. Team balance would be determined by a simple function of population and the teamwide K/D ratio and could be calculated on a weekly basis.

Random balance considerations:
- SoulFire is Paladin-only
- Amulet of Necropotence is made NO DROP
- OT hammer is removed from game, or a comparable FV hammer is added via a similar quest in FV. Necessary to prevent Dark team from having a big mobilization advantage in Kunark/Velious era.
I dig everything about this except item loot and xp loss for pvp death. Item loot = naked casters and lack of people rolling melee. Period. There is a reason Verant got rid of it (all live pvp servers early on had item loot and was later changed to coin loot, a good change IMO). Penalizing XP for a death is just going to make people not want to engage in PvP and there wont be the luxury of rezzes everywhere like we have on blue.

Coin loot a corpse run and a hit to your ego is plenty of penalization for a pvp death.
Last edited by walfreyydo; 10-29-2019 at 08:36 AM..
  #99  
Old 10-29-2019, 09:30 AM
Vexenu Vexenu is offline
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Go back and read it more closely. I did not propose item loot in that ruleset.
  #100  
Old 10-29-2019, 09:47 AM
Nirgon Nirgon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this is why we need teams, so teams can protect their more tender members
No issue with Jibartik here but

Teams just makes you feel like "ugh is this idiot on my team, wish I could kill him"

All the time. Esp when I played wow. Cringe at McDonald's MMO.
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