Will Hybrid XP penalties be implemented on Green Server launch?

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Evia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even if you're right about claasic 99 eq having no pnp Zura, 95% of the eq player base doesnt remember it that way.

It's not "if I am right". It is a FACT. Documented. History. The way you people keep trying to falsify history needs to stop.

You are completely wrong about "95% of the playerbase didn't remember it that way". It's people who didn't play during that era trying to be naysayers. Almost nobody posting here actually played actively in 1999.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's super easy to prove me wrong if you're actually correct, so just do it and quote one person

You've already been proven wrong. You just ignore everything. Since you are incapable of reading and processing anything that shows you are wrong, but now make a claim that will you finally shut up if I directly quote something again, here you go:

Originally Posted by Canelek [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also remember always having a HT up to outburst the occasional intrepid person showing up to nail a named as it would pop.

[NegaStoat]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Almost nobody posting here actually played actively in 1999.

You know what? Okay, fine. I did play about a month after launch on Fennin Ro server, back when fine steel daggers were given to necro pets, magician pets couldn't hold weapons at all even though Absor stated they could and later looked like a tool for his quote when he obviously did zero testing, and this was also back when you could kill your character, leave a corpse, log out, delete your character, create a new character with the same name, and LOOT the corpse you previously left and gain the No Drop items on it. I played when Fish Rolls gave you 2 per combine for fast cash, and recall when town entry guards were buffed to be 100% magic resistant + made into lvl 50's because druids outside of Oggok were killing everything that moved and noob ogre players had nothing to kill their overpulls. Seen it, been there, and had my Kunark expansion show up in a plain brown bag at 1:00 pm pacific time on Launch Day with brand new iksar characters that were created all looked like naked default male human models due to Verant's screw up.

With that out of the way, YES. I do recall that some players on my initial encounters would attack mobs that I had already pulled or were already fighting and would attempt to burn them down so they could get loot. I distinctly recall this happening in Crushbone because goshdang, those belts were just SUCH a huge noob payoff magnet. And YES. If you were in Nektulos and you saw a skeleton holding a staff, every noob would attempt to do over 50% damage to score a cracked staff, regardless of who started the fight with the mob.

What I also recall is that this mindset went to the wayside with players around the time they were in their late teens or early 20's in character levels and were hunting in groups in places like Highpass, Unrest, or venturing into Guk or Mistmoore. Because people were playing more in groups, groups would call out camps and keep mobs killed, make friends, join guilds, etc, and players who were disrupting camps were called out by name or the guild tags of such players were called out and griefing would ensue. So what I am saying is, from my personal limited experience on Fennin Ro, is that the players that would attempt to KS a mob were largely only found either in the very low level bracket, or at the much higher level bracket with open world mobs like Hill Giants when druids were doing their solo thing. I suspect that part of the play nice policy having been put into place was probably because of raiding guilds being stupid but also the massive backlog of reports on Druids sniping things that Guides constantly had to put up with.

So yes, I remember a good portion of what you're talking about. But here's the thing. If it was classic for Everquest to launch without a play nice policy, and then later for the game to evolve into having one ... What on EARTH is the point of repeating that time span of the game evolving into having one going to do to improve the quality of the game, especially one that is offered free and has a server staff made up entirely of volunteers?

And I am STILL completely missing the point on why this absolutely developmentally challenged issue of the play nice policy is being tossed around in a thread dedicated to Hybrid experience point penalties. Get off my lawn and make your own thread dedicated to it!

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Less populated zones/areas would certainly get used more though, in the DPS system. People will naturally gravitate away from places where it gets too competitive if it means they can't sit at their little camp and get full exp off those NPCs. Also as I talked about, if it requires more people to contest top item camps, then it means less people are elsewhere in the game world.

Savvy players would no longer be able to solo Verina Tomb with a late audience standing by, prevented from interfering. That would be add an interesting dynamic to some of those spawns. But then, a lot of sniping would occur elsewhere. Finished the ring war, with only Narandi left to kill? Did the final turn-in for SK epic fight? Inc that other, larger guild and all of its members are full mana. This would even apply to iksar broodlings, with the opposing guilds spamming AE spells while Fear golems are low health.

This is *already* what Green99 is going to be for non-Raid play. Pet classes are massively OP in 1999 era and those are the classes who are going to level the fastest and thus be able to claim the big item camps the fastest. With competition available, other people at least have a chance to get in the mix.

I wouldn't even consider playing one of the fringe classes if it came down to DPS instead of claiming and holding a camp, and that's pretty much all I play. With PNP at least, if one of the solo classes wipes, I can step in and attempt to take over where they left off. If/when they come back, they're only chance is to engage me in conversation and offer to duo.

*only* a Peacebringer and FBSS?!? What the hell? That IS a twinked character, and you're talking about Kunark era now. The character you just described is more twinked than anything that's possible in pre-Kunark.

That's an inevitabity though. Classic and trilogy may be two different beasts, but green does not make those distinctions permanent. The progress between each expansion will be fast compared to what p99ers are accustomed to. The Kunark era on here nearly felt like an era, a lot more than back in classic.

But the point has to do with the weapons and spells available, how certain classes would dominate more than they already do. If, for instance, a Ranger was awarded Oakwynd from a GM event, they would garunteed win every DPS race 1v1, not only that but the same could be said for their group and probably their guild. An extreme example, but still.

There's no such thing as "getting put on the AC list" with the P99 system. Whoever owns the camp can hand it off to anyone they want (aka someone in their farming guild, who will then hand it off to another person in their farming guild, etc).

Plenty have maintained a list and it works well enough by announcing it in ooc, which goes back to the point of a self-regulating playerbase and having other, more concrete agreements in place such as scout roll and sky rotations. Without even a rough outline of the PNP, players could port up to buy keys from keymaster, then leapfrog sky raids to snipe efreetis or to kill keeper of souls and sell looting rights. Guilds were creative enough in the past to spam down targets with Ivandyr's Hoops, they'd figure out ways to ruin hours of a guild's progress.

Having said all of this, there are aspects of the PNP that are similar to social niceties and political (over)correctness which can make interactions feel more predictable than ones with quest NPCs.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Savvy players would no longer be able to solo Verina Tomb with a late audience standing by, prevented from interfering. That would be add an interesting dynamic to some of those spawns. But then, a lot of sniping would occur elsewhere. Finished the ring war, with only Narandi left to kill? Did the final turn-in for SK epic fight? Inc that other, larger guild and all of its members are full mana.

Triggered mobs are owned by the player who triggered them. That's not a contestable spawn, unless the person who triggered it wipes.

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wouldn't even consider playing one of the fringe classes if it came down to DPS instead of claiming and holding a camp, and that's pretty much all I play. With PNP at least, if one of the solo classes wipes, I can step in and attempt to take over where they left off. If/when they come back, they're only chance is to engage me in conversation and offer to duo.

This doesn't make sense. Experienced farmers in this age of the game rarely ever wipe. It's actually pretty much impossible for most item camps pre-Kunark. They would have to go linkdead. You're virtually never going to get a camp on Green99 this way, if the un-classic PNP is kept.

If classic PNP is in the game, then you have the ability to go to the camp and take turns. If pre-PNP is in the game, then you have the ability to get a group and fight for a camp.

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Classic and trilogy may be two different beasts, but green does not make those distinctions permanent.

I'm not sure what your meaning is here. The pre-PNP era of Everquest was pre-Kunark. Having a Monk twinked with a Peacebringer (or even more, yeesh!) never happened in 1999. You couldn't twink anywhere close to that level, and the best items to twink with were being used by main characters (except for extremely rare exceptions, like a few people moving lower level characters to Plane of Fear before there was a level limit, and then getting gear on that character at a later date and moving them back to Norrath).

I don't think that's an issue anyway, if the pre-PNP ruleset were to be in place for the entirety of Green's timeline (which would be justified by the level of competence the playerbase has now, as compared to all those years ago). No matter what the system, twinked characters are always just going to go burn through exp content and move on, and will choose to not group with non-twinked people if they don't want to. There's plenty of uncontested content for non-twinked people to level on. I personally would limit twinking if I could, but that wouldn't be "classic", so unfortunately won't happen here.

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Plenty have maintained a list and it works well enough by announcing it in ooc, which goes back to the point of a self-regulating playerbase and having other, more concrete agreements in place such as scout roll and sky rotations.

The playerbase can always decide what it wants to do in a sandbox format. DPS option being available doesn't mean everyone will do it in every situation. Lists don't have any actual power in the current P99 system though. There have been plenty of posts on this forum about people who waited in line forever and the camp was given to someone not on the list. If non-classic rules are in place, then it's nearly always going to be like that on Green99 pre-Velious, and especially pre-Kunark, when there is not as much item camp content to go around.

People need to stop playing this game thinking that the whole point is item farming. That's not the point. You're just being mice in a cage, going round and round mindlessly on the wheel in a box, if that is what you're doing with the game. Stop being so scared about chaotic things happening and not being able to just sit around like a vegetable in a line for something. The point of the game IS the unexpected and dynamic experiences; you're supposed to be existing in a volatile fantasy world.

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Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not one single person, in any way agrees that doing that here would be a good thing. Not one.

LOL, you've again twisted the subject. And yes there are people who agree with it, but I'm not going to go back and quote again just because you can't read. Further, it is IRRELEVANT if people agree or not. Classic. Is. Classic. That is the game. Most of you are arguing because you have no conception of what is was like or could be like. You are taking a fear-based stance only, without realizing how the actual classic gameplay (*gasp*) can be better for the game.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

GMs didn't follow the PnP or any other rule set consistently. Even if they did, most people didn't petition GMs over such things.

This is totally false. GM's absolutely followed the PnP once it was implemented, and before the PnP, fighting over mobs was absolutely allowed. Some people did petition and they were quickly told there's no rule against it. Like I talked about before, this was discussed on the OFFICIAL EQ MESSAGE BOARDS, and all over other places on the internet. It was formally acknowledged and part of the game, by the game designers and CSR. Players knew about it, and new players were quickly made aware by talking with other players, when those situations arose.

Originally Posted by NegaStoat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So yes, I remember a good portion of what you're talking about. But here's the thing. If it was classic for Everquest to launch without a play nice policy, and then later for the game to evolve into having one ... What on EARTH is the point of repeating that time span of the game evolving into having one going to do to improve the quality of the game, especially one that is offered free and has a server staff made up entirely of volunteers?

Thank you for your recollections about the game back then, further proof for people around here that yes it indeed the game existed as such.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with your last part though. It's already been discussed why the pre-PnP era of Everquest was the best era and policy, and why the classic PnP is better than the unclassic one which exists on p99 right now. The point of "repeating it" is because that's exactly p99's stated goal.

Also, I'm not sure why people are getting riled about the discussion of the thread. Conversation changes happen in discussions. It's not like there's anything more to talk about with Hybrid EXP penalties. A forum moderator can separate all of the other discussion into a new thread if they want to, but so far they haven't. It's not *my* job to make a new thread.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

LOL, you've again twisted the subject.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Savvy players would no longer be able to solo Verina Tomb with a late audience standing by, prevented from interfering. That would be add an interesting dynamic to some of those spawns. But then, a lot of sniping would occur elsewhere. Finished the ring war, with only Narandi left to kill? Did the final turn-in for SK epic fight? Inc that other, larger guild and all of its members are full mana. This would even apply to iksar broodlings, with the opposing guilds spamming AE spells while Fear golems are low health.

Correction.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Mechanics

Mobs do not immediately aggro players within 3 seconds of spawning, and they are immune to any non-targetted spells (PB AEs or targeted AEs they aren't the target of) in that time.

[stewe]

PnP isnt going anywhere, get over it or move on simple as that.

[Jimjam]

Someone mentioned how iksar broodling could be abused in dps race; no different to now.

One would think with fte whoever aggroed broodling first got rights to kill. Instead it has a custom rule that it goes to whoever 'triggered' it. Right?

No reason such custom rules wouldn't apply in a pre-PNP server. The absence of the codified PNP didn't mean all GMs let their servers be Wild West. You were subject to whatever adhoc enforcement they wanted to apply.

Indeed, there have been complaints in the past that p1999 doesn't follow the classic PNP system. Essentially blue has always been in a pre-PNP state where enforcement is down to a GM's judgment and whim instead of a top down authority.

As such, I argue green will have the pre-PNP system and on all likelihood will always be without the Verrant official PNP.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Someone mentioned how iksar broodling could be abused in dps race; no different to now.

One would think with fte whoever aggroed broodling first got rights to kill. Instead it has a custom rule that it goes to whoever 'triggered' it. Right?

No reason such custom rules wouldn't apply in a pre-PNP server. The absence of the codified PNP didn't mean all GMs let their servers be Wild West. You were subject to whatever adhoc enforcement they wanted to apply.

Well there's evidence floating around that the spawn for tear drop worked differently in the early days of classic.

But the custom rule or unwritten law, so to speak, seems to apply elsewhere as well without any attempts from outside parties to ruleslawyer. The skeletal version of Sir Lucan. Thought destroyer. Xenovorash. Any and all the giants spawned during the ring war. So basically, no touchy unless directly involved with those who began the process/killed its "placeholder" for lack of a better term. The rules have been customized over time out of necessity and blue server has still maintained its classic feel; no reason why green server wouldn't. Similar to how earthquakes aren't at all classic, but very easily would have been back in 1999 under the right conditions / if the devs had thought of it.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Similar to how earthquakes aren't at all classic, but very easily would have been back in 1999 under the right conditions / if the devs had thought of it.

You misunderstand: earthquakes are 100% classic!

What's not classic is them being a precise amount (0-2? 1-3?) every month (like they were for a little while here) or else totally forgotten about (like they were for 9 years), or partly forgotten about (how they have been recently).

But the reason you probably don't remember them on live is because they weren't called "earthquakes", they were called "server patches", and they came along with an annoying period of time where you couldn't play the game and you had to hang out in those idiotic Verant chat rooms. P99 not taking the server down prior to "earthquakes" is unclassic ... but you won't hear many complaints about it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]