Best Server Community Sin--Wait, Nevermind

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by soup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... I do believe the good people here vastly outnumber the more questionable ones.

This. Period.

huge thanks to the devs for this too...most don't realize how many idiots they've blasted off the server.

hopefully kunark will balance things out a bit.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by soup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bahahaha. You know that slippery slope is also a fallacy, right? Basically what you just did was get called out on a logical fallacy, so you use another logical fallacy to defend yourself, WHILE CITING WHAT THAT FALLACY IS. I mean, I've seen enough of your posts to think you probably aren't a complete moron or anything, but that wasn't a very well thought out response to my post, lol.

Then you won't mind me calling you out on dodging the question.

How many minutes are you saying someone should wait for a person to do a CR and come back to the camp before they can claim it from that person? Is it 5? 10? 60 minutes? 300 minutes? 4500 minutes?

Just asking a simple question. I'm sure you'll reply with some witty response like "SLIPPERY SLOPE IS A FALLACY HEHE" or "STRAWMAN!" but you'd still not be answering my simple question. And if you do answer it, I would like you to follow up with who decides the number of minutes we must wait, and where is this written?

[soup]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I apologize... I didn't realize we were all playing "Phragmar's View of What Everquest Should Be Like".

Do not hold my guild or others accountable for your vision of the way things are supposed to be. Who are you to decide what is right and wrong? These things are spelled out objectively in the server ruleset precisely so people aren't held accountable to every Tom, Dick, and Harry's subjective view of right and wrong. The only reason you think something is a douchebag move is because you want to pick and choose which parts of the rule set you want to play by, and which parts you don't, and then paint some evil picture of whoever doesn't pick and choose in the same fashion.

No one's going to leave the server because they were "treated like a dick." They are going to leave the server because they didn't agree with the rule set, or were too oversensitive to handle the rule set being applied in a situation that was not in their favor (i.e. retaining a camp for X number of minutes after you die/wipe.)

Rilen died, for whatever reason, and lost the camp. At the time he was sent to his bind point by whatever killed him, the camp no longer belonged to him. I don't care which way you want to twist it... if you for one second suppose that the camp still belonged to him after he died, then you're saying camps can be reserved for an unspecified amount of time while the player is on CR. Which, if you played Live as you have claimed, you know is totally ridiculous.

Now you come here with your own made-up rules in your head that people should wait X number of minutes for someone to come back to a camp after they failed to keep it and died. Who are you to make up this rule? How am I supposed to know I am being held accountable for it? What is this magical number X number of minutes I must wait before the camp is no longer theirs? And when you see members of my guild not abide by this artificial ruleset, they're the douchebags? They're evil? They're loot-centric?

What about the person making up rules magically protecting someone's claim to a camp while they aren't even in the zone? Because they died. Which are completely different than the established rules set forth by the server admins so that there would be no question about this situation?

I know this is a carebear server, but what you're looking for is a server powered by rainbows and unicorn farts. Sorry the population of P1999 didn't live up to your divine standards. I hope you don't plan to do any raiding any time soon, because you're in for a rude awakening. No, if you wipe on Naggy, the guild breathing down your necks behind you is not going to give you as many attempts as you want until you give up and graciously let them take a turn. This was no different on Live, so it shouldn't be a shocker to you here.

Again, sorry we all disappointed you. I guess that's really all I have to say. And if you need a SoW in EC Tunnel while I'm standing there, I'll still give one to you if you'd like.

You keep citing the rules as what decides what is or isn't a douche bag thing to do. "These are the rules we agree on and outside of that it's fair game." but that's a pretty crappy way to look at things. There is PLENTY that should NOT be a rule but still makes you a douche bag for doing it. I can make a hypothetical scenario in 20 seconds to show this.

Say you're a class that can cast SoW. A naked lowbie runs up to you and asks if he can have a SoW for his corpse run. You tell him you will SoW him for 10 plat, no less. He informs you that he is naked and on CR and has no plat, furthermore he informs you he just spent all his plat on a piece of banded armor. You're sitting there with GEBs and BS jewelry and encumbered because of the 20k you're carrying as well as having a full mana bar and are doing nothing, but you still refuse to SoW him without receiving 10plat in exchange for it. Is this a douche bag thing to do?

Please, anyone who does not think that's a douche bag thing to do, tell me now so I can stick you on ignore. With that said, there absolutely should NOT be any kind of rule AT ALL against that.

[soup]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then you won't mind me calling you out on dodging the question.

How many minutes are you saying someone should wait for a person to do a CR and come back to the camp before they can claim it from that person? Is it 5? 10? 60 minutes? 300 minutes? 4500 minutes?

Just asking a simple question. I'm sure you'll reply with some witty response like "SLIPPERY SLOPE IS A FALLACY HEHE" or "STRAWMAN!" but you'd still not be answering my simple question. And if you do answer it, I would like you to follow up with who decides the number of minutes we must wait, and where is this written?

See, you're doing exactly what I'm talking about, making it all about some technical rule definition. The entire point I'm trying to make here is that it SHOULD NOT be about some exacting amount of time that differentiates what is or isn't this or that. If the poor guy died and is immediately running back, fuck man, just let him have the camp back. Hell, you could even be a really nice guy and hold it for him til he gets back. Or, you can choose to tell him to fuck off and and take it.

Like I said, it isn't about what the rules should or shouldn't be, it's about what is or isn't decent and respectable behavior. You saying "SO WHAT'S THE EXACT AMOUNT OF TIME THAT SHOULD PASS???//" is EXACTLY what I'm saying shouldn't happen. You can tell the noob on a CR you wont SoW him for less than 10 plat, and no rules should tell you otherwise, but absolutely refusing despite sitting there FM doing nothing is a pretty douchey thing to do.

[soup]

Here, I'll just go ahead and sum up my position as simply as possible:

if the rules are all you use to determine what you should or shouldn't do, you're probably an asshole

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also find it kind of 'humerous' that humerox went from being one of the jerks who kept frenzy to themselves by handing it off to each other for like weeks using the corpse bank exploit to the guy who isn't selfish and doesn't care about loot.

Um...I think you got me confused, bro.

I have never camped Frenzy here. Ever. I hate LGuk with a passion, lol.

and I was once the biggest "white knight" on the server. not that it did much good, lol...

[Darian]

Originally Posted by Phragmar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What happened between the members of VD and Rilen was wrong. That's the long and short of it. It was legal (legal, at least if the camp meets the definition of a camp under the server rules, and since I haven't seen any staff interpretation on the definition or application to this particular area of the game world, I'm not prepared to take a position on that), but what happened was fundamentally unjust. That means something to me.

K. I'm parking my necro at Lord camp until I get a pair of yaks. When people ask if Lord camp is open, I will respond that I alone am camping the mob and no one else is allowed to have a shot at it. If there is a group of 3 people behind me wanting a shot, I will tell them to wait their turn. If I die, I expect them to wait until I have finished running back without a port from Kerra Isle where I bound myself-- because after all, they saw me die and they know it's my camp. If they try to take the camp, I will call them loot-greedy douchebags and label the situation fundamentally unjust.

This is a league game. This determines who enters the next round-robin. Am I wrong?

Originally Posted by Soup

Say you're a class that can cast SoW. A naked lowbie runs up to you and asks if he can have a SoW for his corpse run. You tell him you will SoW him for 10 plat, no less. He informs you that he is naked and on CR and has no plat, furthermore he informs you he just spent all his plat on a piece of banded armor. You're sitting there with GEBs and BS jewelry and encumbered because of the 20k you're carrying as well as having a full mana bar and are doing nothing, but you still refuse to SoW him without receiving 10plat in exchange for it. Is this a douche bag thing to do?

Please, anyone who does not think that's a douche bag thing to do, tell me now so I can stick you on ignore. With that said, there absolutely should NOT be any kind of rule AT ALL against that.

So you don't want to punish people who don't believe in forced charity, you just want to publicly shame them. Got it.

[Spewys]

Wow!!! Can of worms has been opened !!

[soup]

Originally Posted by Darian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

K. I'm parking my necro at Lord camp until I get a pair of yaks. When people ask if Lord camp is open, I will respond that I alone am camping the mob and no one else is allowed to have a shot at it. If there is a group of 3 people behind me wanting a shot, I will tell them to wait their turn. If I die, I expect them to wait until I have finished running back without a port from Kerra Isle where I bound myself-- because after all, they saw me die and they know it's my camp. If they try to take the camp, I will call them loot-greedy douchebags and label the situation fundamentally unjust.

This is a league game. This determines who enters the next round-robin. Am I wrong?



So you don't want to punish people who don't believe in forced charity, you just want to publicly shame them. Got it.

Usually when people resort to using excessively exaggerated extremes to defend their position, it's the same thing as saying "I know things look and sound really bad, but I don't want to admit it."


@ your ninja edit
I'm not sure where you read that in what I posted. All I said is that the rules don't dictate what is or isn't a dick thing to do. Anyone who thinks the rules DO dictate what is or isn't a dick thing to do is either an asshole or a simpleton. Often a combination of both.

[soup]

I've seriously seen a much stronger sense of community from many WoW players than I see being exhibited by a lot of people in this thread, and I know how most people on this server look at WoW players...