What is the hardest dungeon in the game?

[Tecmos Deception]

HS does have hard mechanics. But knowledge can counter those. SG has hard mechanics that knowledge cannot counter. You're just confusing the issue if you can't realize what "hard" is supposed to mean in the context of the subject and first post.

It takes 0-1 wipes in HS for a competent group to realize they they probably should have a contingency plan in event of a wipe. Then the thing that you've been carrying on about for pages is nearly a non-issue. And even that first CR isn't that bad unless your group was like, 6 warriors or some shit so that you can't pick locks or invis or summon corpses or kill (albeit more slowly) without gear, etc.

But since SG is difficult to crawl through/farm/etc (you know, hard), even if you know how to move through the zone or do a CR or whatever, it is harder.

As for bringing ntov into this? I hope you're just trolling and not actually afflicted with a mental impairment.

[mickmoranis]

lol no, just becuse you can master something doesnt mean it wasnt hard.

The piano is hard, but you can master it.

However, surviving a gun shot, is not something you cannot master, it is not difficult to survive a gunshot to the face, it is impossible.

SG is almost impossible.

NToV is MORE impossible, so it is therefor harder, by your standards.

No hard, is something that can become easy if you are good at it, impossible is something that is not more difficult, its just impossible.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Factor in the requirement of using level-appropriate gear.

Some of the lower-mid level dungeons are absolute deathtraps, which is why no one uses them. Examples:

Splitpaw Lair
Dalnir
Runnyeye
Droga
Cazic Thule

I would argue that these are actually some of the most challenging dungeons in the game when adjusted for level and gear. I still remember a particularly amazing/disastrous group I once had in Runnyeye that culminated in a fight to the death with a huge train of goblins, in which four group members were slain and two barely survived. Probably the most intense and memorable battle I've had in EQ. And in Runnyeye, of all places.

Anyway, the question stands: what do you think is the hardest dungeon in the game when adjusting for level and gear?

You really think it's appropriate to bring up ntov in this thread Mick? Lol.

[skarlorn]

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[mickmoranis]

in level apropriate gear, HS can completely destroy you, hell you could get stuck in west, unable to get out if you go past the drop off as a melee, even as a rogue who is level 50 and cant raise your skill to 201 to pick out of that area, forever.

I think if you are comparing SG to kunark dungeons, and using the high mr, high resist, often raid target mobs as examples of why its a "harder" zone than HS then yes of course its fair to say any zone with higher level mobs is therefor harder than SG

There is nothing, except for mob level/mr/hp that makes SG harder than HS. Which means, on even standing, if you compare all the elements that each zone has to offer, HS Is the harder level aproprtiate dungeon.

I mean, since you have to be level 52 to fight naggy, technically SolB is harder than SG because, in level appropriate gear, naggy is impossible for a 6 man group.

... just like some mobs in SG.

[skarlorn]

nagafen is a literal dragon and sirens are just hot chicks + fish sticks, so what's your excuse?

[mickmoranis]

Originally Posted by skarlorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

nagafen is a literal dragon and sirens are just hot chicks + fish sticks, so what's your excuse?

two of the 4 named mobs in that zone have twice as many hitpoints than nagafen and hit for 1500

You're going to try to tell me thats group content for level appropriate characters?

Is level appropriate, 3-5 years of NTOV farming?

[skarlorn]

smaug was defeated by 1 human ranger.

sirens almost killed odysseus' entire crew.

prove it!

[mickmoranis]

I'm totally willing to admit that SG requires a raid force for the average group of appropriate gear/level characters, but I think that alone is the answer to if anyone thinks its a dungeon, or a raid zone.

While HS is clearly a dungeon, and is drastically harder for a group of mid 50's in appropriate gear for a multitude of reasons, from mob difficulty, environment layout, keys, traps.

I just think you bring 6 level 54's that have never been to HS before, into HS and said, GO

They would complete content that was possible for them to complete (nerriads and shit) in sg, with dificulty in the fight, but not in cr and regrouping, trying new strats and eventually winning.. while in HS when that same thign happens, you're stuck with either an impossible CR or one that will take the rest of your night, resulting in the group logging off demoralized and in mutual agreement to never go back.

[Drosis]

I like how this rickmoranis guy is trying to say that SG is now a "raid" zone because people are picking apart his argument that HS is harder than SG. Dude, go check out SG for a little bit and you'll see why its the hardest dungeon. Considering enchanters can SOLO/DUO there I definitely consider it a dungeon and not a "raid" zone. It's the HARDEST dungeon in the game. That's why Sony eventually nerfed it.

Let me reiterate what others have said in the thread:
In SG mobs sees invis, trash can be level 55+ while hitting for 300, being very resistant, bugged pathing on z-axis, tight clusters of mobs. Chanter and cleric mobs cast symbols and wondrous rapidity. There are innate double backstabbers who can hit for over 800x2 while quadding for almost 300! And then there's icy servants who aoe every 30 or so seconds for 500 damage (dragon aoe style) and dispel a slot.

I've done HS a thousand times and nothing in that zone compares to SG at all.