Shaman race debate

[phro]

Everyone says ogre all the way as if the entire play experience can be boiled down to a few moments where you're tanking some hits.

Regen is so incredibly huge when you factor in time and the fact that it is always in effect. Canni effectively makes it permanent breeze that stacks with clarity and all your other available mana regen.

Over the course of any moderately leveled character the one with regen will have healed millions and millions of HP for free that you didn't have. With Canni how many more spells will have been able to cast over the same play time? You don't think one of those hundreds of thousands of HPs or one of those single spells will save me or my friends as much as not getting stunned in one situation where shit is already hitting the fan?

[maskedmelon]

While I understand the benefits of both FSI and racial regen, I think this thread fails to address the fact that anything other than barbarian will suffer irreparable damage to their self esteem due the likely housands of hours spent ugly ^^

[loramin]

Originally Posted by phro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone says ogre all the way as if the entire play experience can be boiled down to a few moments where you're tanking some hits.

Those "few moments" are the most important fights in many Shaman's lives.

When you are level 60 with Torpor, and you want to solo something beefy (like say some Velious content), regen barely helps, but front stun immunity does.

Since "level 60 with Torpor soloing baddass stuff" is the pinnacle of many Shaman's aspirations, Ogre is popular because at that very end stage the Ogre racial is useful and the Troll/Iksar racial isn't. It has nothing to do with which one can be used more often, and everything to do with having the most useful ability at the "pinnacle" moments.

Now, personally I don't buy that argument (as evidenced by my polar bear hat), but I'm just saying, you can't dismiss Ogre as being about "a few moments" because there's a huge difference between the easy fight against a blue when you are leveling and the insanely hard fight that you do at the very end of your career.

[kagrobb]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Those "few moments" are the most important fights in many Shaman's lives.

When you are level 60 with Torpor, and you want to solo something beefy (like say some Velious content), regen barely helps, but front stun immunity does.

Since "level 60 with Torpor soloing baddass stuff" is the pinnacle of many Shaman's aspirations, Ogre is popular because at that very end stage the Ogre racial is useful and the Troll/Iksar racial isn't. It has nothing to do with which one can be used more often, and everything to do with having the most useful ability at the "pinnacle" moments.

Now, personally I don't buy that argument (as evidenced by my polar bear hat), but I'm just saying, you can't dismiss Ogre as being about "a few moments" because there's a huge difference between the easy fight against a blue when you are leveling and the insanely hard fight that you do at the very end of your career.

This post begins to touch the surface of the ogre solo ability of difficult targets at the level 60. On live I played a shm and during the velious era in group/thurg quest/epic click I could and did solo guardian wurms outside of VP ent for spells with my crappy shm pet. I have said this before but was called a liar by other shaman. root the mob malo the mob slow it, then cannit to full if you need to reslow/cripple click epic dot dot dot reroot. at this point you will start to get summoned you can either try to keep pet up or just back up since it takes a few seconds to get resummoned. Root slow rot canni topor until you have killed the mob.

Tedious yes, duo with sk or pally is far easier and far faster, but this is doable if you are bored enough or want to try to grind out some plat for spells. The caveat is that you need topor already to do this since no other heal line is going to keep this going.

Being able to tank a mob in the face as you recast slow or canni or topor yourself is worth its weight in gold at any level not just 60. So many times even as a lowbie shm it has saved me from losing spell casting and finished that slow or healed through a beatdown by a mob. Start thinking about slows on ae ramp mobs and having to bellycast on everything. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

*edit* got a ton of necro spells for the guild necros before i got my avatard spell on live

[phro]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Those "few moments" are the most important fights in many Shaman's lives.

When you are level 60 with Torpor, and you want to solo something beefy (like say some Velious content), regen barely helps, but front stun immunity does.

Since "level 60 with Torpor soloing baddass stuff" is the pinnacle of many Shaman's aspirations, Ogre is popular because at that very end stage the Ogre racial is useful and the Troll/Iksar racial isn't. It has nothing to do with which one can be used more often, and everything to do with having the most useful ability at the "pinnacle" moments.

Now, personally I don't buy that argument (as evidenced by my polar bear hat), but I'm just saying, you can't dismiss Ogre as being about "a few moments" because there's a huge difference between the easy fight against a blue when you are leveling and the insanely hard fight that you do at the very end of your career.

You dismissed my advice to not base your choice on a "few moments" by citing an incredibly unlikely endgame for almost all people who would be asking themselves which race shaman to be.

Pick your class based on leveling to 60, buying a spell for 100k plat, and raiding the gear to get you to a point where your stun immunity advantage gives you a special achievement text in a video game OOOOOOORRRRRR you can regen a bunch of HPs 100% of the time you play no matter what you end up doing.

[Ezalor]

Originally Posted by phro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You dismissed my advice to not base your choice on a "few moments" by citing an incredibly unlikely endgame for almost all people who would be asking themselves which race shaman to be.

troll regen is 100% useless until "highly unlikely endgame"

look at the graph below. it doesnt even really kick in until lvl 51+

if i had to choose if i want frontal stun 1-60 or slightly better regen 51+ it's a no brainer

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[theaetatus]

Originally Posted by phro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Over the course of any moderately leveled character the one with regen will have healed millions and millions of HP for free that you didn't have. fan?

Considering from 1-50 you're only gaining 10-40 hp per minute at most this is just hyperbole.

You shouldn't be min/maxing for the easy stuff where regen helps, you should min/max for the tough stuff like breaking a camp solo or when your group suddenly gets a ton of adds. This is when bash immunity will save you and your group.

[skorge]

Originally Posted by phro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone says ogre all the way as if the entire play experience can be boiled down to a few moments where you're tanking some hits.

Regen is so incredibly huge when you factor in time and the fact that it is always in effect. Canni effectively makes it permanent breeze that stacks with clarity and all your other available mana regen.

Over the course of any moderately leveled character the one with regen will have healed millions and millions of HP for free that you didn't have. With Canni how many more spells will have been able to cast over the same play time? You don't think one of those hundreds of thousands of HPs or one of those single spells will save me or my friends as much as not getting stunned in one situation where shit is already hitting the fan?

Lol I love this debate, and Phro understands why Troll = #1 shaman race, even in Best of the Best tournaments.

Put simply regen > all traits in the game. In fact, regen is so good, Verant made trolls and iksars suffer from the largest exp penalty in the game because of it. They knew enough about basic math to understand exactly what Phro just said here - a troll/iksar shaman regens thousands and thousands of more hps over ogres/barbs giving them more casts via canni/manastone, in their lifetime, allowing them to level faster, powerlevel players easier, group with people easier, etc. Regen is KING yo.

Also, if you think that ogre shaman can solo mobs that trolls/barbs/iks can't then you are dead wrong. That frontal stun immunity racial ogres have is just "nice" to have, that is all. Regen is also "nice" to have. Which one do you want? One that is ALWAYS in effect or one that is very rarely in effect?

PS - to those who don't know why I pick trolls as #1, it's the simple fact they can wear and use the JBB (the snare neck is an added bonus). If Iksars could wear the JBB they would get my number #1 pick. The JBB is just too good to pass up, unfortunately, for iksars.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by skorge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, if you think that ogre shaman can solo mobs that trolls/barbs/iks can't then you are dead wrong. That frontal stun immunity racial ogres have is just "nice" to have, that is all. Regen is also "nice" to have. Which one do you want? One that is ALWAYS in effect or one that is very rarely in effect?

The one that's "nice" to have that is more likely to help on the more challenging encounters.

[Widan]

Ogre on red or don't play a shaman imo