The plight of the Kagatob

[Raev]

Of course people join startups to make money. If you join an early stage startup that makes it big, you can make 10s of millions of dollars. It's simply not possible to get paid that much in a big company.

And I never said that money was the only factor in hiring decisions. But if you are offering 50% more compensation than your competition, you will get the best people. It's just amazing to me that you guys are trying to avoid this point on some sort of vague 'well salary isn't the only thing' platform. And even if we are comparing intangibles, presumably my all-female company is winning there too: they won't have to put up with all of that uncomfortable atmosphere that you guys keep insisting men emanate, and because the CEO/HR/etc are all presumably above average for the same reasons we can expect a good working environment.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That doesn't change the beating in rationale that you've received from them. You're stubborn, hate women, and need to get over yourself.

Prove that I "hate women".

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Philip Greenspun

It was fun to see a whole issue of Communications (Women in Computing, January 1995) with scarcely an article by a white male oppressor, but I got lost in the statistics, tables, and references. I teach some of the brightest women electrical engineering and computer science undergraduates in the world here at MIT and a two-minute conversation with any of them illuminates the problem more than your 162-page issue. The problem is money.

My third-best student last term said "I don't want to be an engineer. I'm going to medical school." "Laura" won't need to beg an administrator to put her "tenure decision on hold for child care" as described in the CACM issue. (This would be assuming she beats out 1000 other applicants for a university job.) She can work one emergency room shift per week and earn $60,000/year. That will leave Laura the other 6.5 days to care for children, indulge in computer science research, or travel.

In a Saab with the four Swedish girls. Manhattan 1995. One of the top women graduate students in our department (EECS) just quit to work as a management consultant. "Allison" explained "I just didn't think a PhD was worth another three years." Her advisor loved her, she had support, and she knew that she could do the work. Allison also knew that she'll make five to ten times the salary than she would have if she'd stayed in a technical field.

These women are confronting the facts that your article failed to address: Intelligent people with PhDs are working as C programmers; The average engineering career lasts seven years, pays average, and doesn't justify an MIT education that costs $120,000; anyone smart enough to make it as a computer scientist can make it with less work and risk as an MD, MBA, or JD; there has been so little progress in programming environments, systems, and computer languages in the last three decades that programmers in India and other Third World countries are perfectly capable of taking over the majority of American computer science jobs.

Your January issue asks "Why are there so few women in computing?" Maybe you should do another issue asking "Why are there so many men?"

Greenspun nailing this as far back as 1995 IMO.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Prove that I "hate women".

You're willfully ignorant, so what would be the point to? Your consistent tactic is to piecemeal an argument through a rhetorical breakdown that doesn't show that you have any intelligence on the subject.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're willfully ignorant, so what would be the point to? Your consistent tactic is to piecemeal an argument through a rhetorical breakdown that doesn't show that you have any intelligence on the subject.

Not that anything you've just said holds any weight. Even if it did, it's still not proof or even evidence that I "hate women". I do hate radical feminism, which you seem to continue to want to defend.

[Cecily]

Radical feminist blogs and comment sections have caused me quite a few crushingly depressed nights after reading their thoughts on transwomen. Hard to deal with that type of hatred towards the thought of your very existence. I hate them right back.

[Pokesan]

Having been hurt by blogs myself, I can say - I feel your pain, Cecily

god bless

[Estolcles]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Radical feminist blogs and comment sections have caused me quite a few crushingly depressed nights after reading their thoughts on transwomen. Hard to deal with that type of hatred towards the thought of your very existence. I hate them right back.

Trans people are the whippng boys/girls of the rest of the LGB movement, and some women. It's sad. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[katrik]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Radical feminist blogs and comment sections have caused me quite a few crushingly depressed nights after reading their thoughts on transwomen. Hard to deal with that type of hatred towards the thought of your very existence. I hate them right back.

Well said. They HATE us! Plus they smell. Fuck feminists.

[paulgiamatti]

You guys are really hanging out with the wrong crowd if you think radical feminism is about marginalizing transgenderism. Radically feminist literature pretty much changed my life, and helped immensely to dispel the bigoted, toxic notions I had about non-hetero and transgendered people that were instilled in me by my upbringing.

To me the idea of coming away from radical feminism with the idea that trans people are bad is just completely strange. I've never heard or read or seen anything of the sort from radical feminists.