VP closed to Class R guilds?

[Gimp]

deleted

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Gimp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm all for reducing variance. I'd say a window of ~4 hours would be fair to all parties, but it's just not gonna happen. If anything, the reduced variance will cause more people to toe the line of the ruleset and cause more socking.

And those people should be relentlessly suspended and eventually banned if they don't stop socking.

It's really simple. Make a rule that says you can only have 3 players in zone when it spawns. Otherwise you are DQ'd. If people are socking on the other side of a zone line, suspend them too. (Allow for a few outside to be camping or buffing then camping but entire groups waiting over zone lines should earn suspensions).

[Fountree]

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[-TK-]

Originally Posted by Derubael

VP will never be a "Class R" thing. The "best" content is always going to be something that will go to the guilds who put the most time/effort into getting there.

I still don't understand what is not clear about this. It states a ruling and gives the reasoning.

Whether anyone likes it or not, this is the mentality of those running the show. Step-up or gtfo. And I don't know how you say you're not trying to lawyer your way into VP after reading the last few posts.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by -TK- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I still don't understand what is not clear about this. It states a ruling and gives the reasoning.

Whether anyone likes it or not, this is the mentality of those running the show. Step-up or gtfo. And I don't know how you say you're not trying to lawyer your way into VP after reading the last few posts.

No one is really disagreeing with the ruling, we simply dont understand the logic.

If the best and the brightest need all these added layers of protection from the 'casual scum' then it makes you wonder why there is so much pandering to one group of people

and lets remember what even 'separates' them from the others....the willingness to go full neckbeard when approached with these time sink problems

Raev makes an excellent point each time he posts and I will re-iterate it....

Why adopt more timesinks rather than accepting that things here are never going to be all that 'classic feeling' and work on integrating changes that add 'fun' but keep in the spirit of classic EQ.

inb4 Clark's Custom99 quips, I dont think anyone here wants carnival type attractions in terms of their dragon encounters, but there are so many great ideas out there that would add a little bit of fun and classic flavor up in this piece that its crazy the main focus ( besides Velious ) seems to be keeping pixels flowing to the top 5%ers.

[-TK-]

So if 'willingness to go full neckbeard' = 'more time/effort', then I'm confused as to where the disconnect is based on the Deru's post. It's a rose by another name.

I guarantee that TMO and IB continually put more neckbeard (time/effort) into preparing for the endgame than other guilds. Everyone pokes fun at their 5/6/7th alt, but that is time and effort. They are prepared to camp out a character at each mob and their reward for the time invested is the top level endgame content. They are also willing to log-in in force at all hours of the day to kill mobs and do so consistently. You shouldn't hate someone because they have more time to play than you whether you think they are lame for it or not. They put in a LOT of time/effort to be setup for raiding. It's their primary goal when they log in. Any guild could do the same if they are so motivated. Everquest has always been a game that rewards time and effort. I see no difference in this instance.

The way I've seen it over the past year, as have many others, is that this started with TMO and IB locking down pretty much all the raid mobs and the other guilds complained. The GMs intervened and forced IB and TMO to give up numerous spawns but in the process made VP exclusive to them to counter what they were giving up. So here we are almost a year later and now class R wants TMO and IB to give up VP without giving anything up themselves. It doesn't make sense. Class R has the option to kill mobs in VP, but first they must be willing to risk the allotted spawns they were given last year. I don't see how that is not fair. I suspected this might happen as class R became more bloated and guilds began waiting longer and longer for spawns but that is irrelevant.

This is just my own opinion, of course. The logic doesn't seem too awry to me, but I also don't spend as much time worrying about it as some people do.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by -TK- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So if 'willingness to go full neckbeard' = 'more time/effort', then I'm confused as to where the disconnect is based on the Deru's post. It's a rose by another name.

No one is disputing that FITEMOBS (this acronym was so much cooler when FE was still around) puts in more time.

What we are questioning is why, if the staff decided to go to a nonclassic raid system, was it one that rewarded people for staring at a wall (variance) and not for skill (repops).

[-TK-]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one is disputing that FITEMOBS (this acronym was so much cooler when FE was still around) puts in more time.

What we are questioning is why, if the staff decided to go to a nonclassic raid system, was it one that rewarded people for staring at a wall (variance) and not for skill (repops).

I would say that from my experience in life in general, those that put more time and effort into something come out with the biggest rewards and usually skill is a bi-product of that time and effort. That seems logical to me as well.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by -TK- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would say that from my experience in life in general, those that put more time and effort into something come out with the biggest rewards and usually skill is a bi-product of that time and effort. That seems logical to me as well.

Please replace "time and effort" in your paragraph with "staring at a wall for 16 hours" and see if it still makes sense to you.

There are quite a few people on this server who would like to see a full rotation on everything. I think that would be rather boring. If this server had 8 repops a month and was full FFA, your paragraph would actually make sense. The people that geared/leveled/improved coordination would do well, and those that did not would suck.

Also, there is no question in my mind that IB and TMO are in general better at that coordination than the R guilds. I was in IB for a while and its a well maintained ship with some nice people. I just didn't like the timesinks - it was jav spamming at the time.

[skipdog]

Originally Posted by -TK- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So if 'willingness to go full neckbeard' = 'more time/effort', then I'm confused as to where the disconnect is based on the Deru's post. It's a rose by another name.

I guarantee that TMO and IB continually put more neckbeard (time/effort) into preparing for the endgame than other guilds. Everyone pokes fun at their 5/6/7th alt, but that is time and effort. They are prepared to camp out a character at each mob and their reward for the time invested is the top level endgame content. They are also willing to log-in in force at all hours of the day to kill mobs and do so consistently. You shouldn't hate someone because they have more time to play than you whether you think they are lame for it or not. They put in a LOT of time/effort to be setup for raiding. It's their primary goal when they log in. Any guild could do the same if they are so motivated. Everquest has always been a game that rewards time and effort. I see no difference in this instance.

The way I've seen it over the past year, as have many others, is that this started with TMO and IB locking down pretty much all the raid mobs and the other guilds complained. The GMs intervened and forced IB and TMO to give up numerous spawns but in the process made VP exclusive to them to counter what they were giving up. So here we are almost a year later and now class R wants TMO and IB to give up VP without giving anything up themselves. It doesn't make sense. Class R has the option to kill mobs in VP, but first they must be willing to risk the allotted spawns they were given last year. I don't see how that is not fair. I suspected this might happen as class R became more bloated and guilds began waiting longer and longer for spawns but that is irrelevant.

This is just my own opinion, of course. The logic doesn't seem too awry to me, but I also don't spend as much time worrying about it as some people do.

great post. sad that so many can't grasp or agree with this logic...