Leapfrogging

[azeth]

Originally Posted by Otto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Much like Haynar's experience, this is how it was on Rodcet Pre-Luclin. I remember being pissed that my guild was letting our rivals (Forsaken) go after emp since it was their 'turn'.

What guild were you in? Anthology, my guild, never participated in a rotation nor am I aware of one. Except of course early early on during Velious Ascent and AoD rotated NToV.

[Otto]

Originally Posted by azeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What guild were you in? Anthology, my guild, never participated in a rotation nor am I aware of one. Except of course early early on during Velious Ascent and AoD rotated NToV.

Was actually in Forsaken, hated it, joined Pyrho's guild, then joined Conviction when they formed.

[Kainzo]

GM's only intervened if there were trains / conflict. 95% of the time, the community banished the people who kept breaking rotations / rules on mobs that were widely conflicted.

[Allizia]

Originally Posted by yaeger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm loathe to suggest this, to add more load onto the Devs, but I have a suggestion.

First, pretty much everyone that's playing now knows everything about the raid targets before they even raid. We know respawn timers, loot tables, strategy, numbers, anything and everything about these 'classic' mobs. They've been killed so many times in so many different ways that it's trivial.

Why don't we change it. The awesome thing about Classic was trying to learn encounters, expect the unexpected. The majority of the players on this server have raided at some point on Live, are familiar with what EQ expects from a successful raid force, and can use Google to answer any and all questions.

I know this topic is about leapfrogging, but I believe that solving the challenge of raid difficulty will help eliminate it.

Here is an option that I think might be viable.

- Create a counter on raid targets (bosses). This will increase the difficulty slowly to create a steady and consistent challenge as raid forces gear up.

a) When a boss is killed, the next time it spawns, it'll spawn with 1% more health, damage (to attacks, aoe's, and various special abilities).
b) Make the bonuses cumulative. If Phinny is killed 5 times, he'd get a 5% bonus.
c) The bonus will wear off by 1% every spawn cycle it's up without being killed (with spawn timer +/- 2x the random spawn delay).

what? are you high or is this for serious... It's great you are trying to find a solution, but I think yall are looking a bit too deep into things =P I can shoot this idea down from about 8 different angles, no offense

[Xadion]

Here is my 2cp

I played day 1 on Veeshan, home of FoH and many other guilds that make other servers look like childs play in terms of raiding etc.

We never had GM enforced rotation- because although how much the high end guilds where hardcore and could all be assholes- there was a general respect among the guilds- FoH,CD,CoE etc etc if there was a force in stage, lets say PoFear it would be a race to get a force and break westwall- whomever broke the zone, got the zone.

Kunark, I cant tell you much as I raided very little near the top end guilds at that time- Velious was the same, first to get into their respective wing had it- leapfrogging happend mostly in north, and 90% of the time resulted in training each other and then a GM would kick one guild out- usualy after they leapfrogged and got 1 dragon or two- as they would not skip the guild, but at the split at the begining most would go right kill Dargon and the other two as they move to the ring interception/vulak area- if there was leap frogging the other guild would go kill the AoE knockback one and the fish one- then usualy there would be some trains (aka we r just pulling tripplets watch out!) and then a GM would come in and sort things out, if it ever got that far.

Mostly things will be okay come Velious- that is if there are a good number of overlapping desired pops. Just the number of things to do in velious will fix it, Kunark and Sky will not...what is there to raid in Kunark? Sky, Trak, VS, Chardoc, 3 world dragons...oh yes the trial zone of ToV..that will take forever to get into because of the Trakanon drop. Kunark may only help depending on the attitude of Epics, as many of them require popping back into old raid zones, PoF/H and alot in Air/Sky- are the guilds going to focus on taking a force to clear out the gholems and CT rather than sit poopsocking VS? Time will tell.

The only real solution is have more content than is needed, that /may/ happen in kunark- but I honestly do not see it happening untill velious.

rant random over

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Originally Posted by mmiles8 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fastboy21 could not be a better testimonial to using the GM's policies from live.

Xev was where I was a Guide. It had a kickass SMT that cared, was professional, and went by the book.

I also did most of my early raiding on Xev (and came from Povar). I was not high enough to be in the raiding game during classic. I did just a couple of Naggy/Vox raids before Kunark got rolling, but by mid Kunark and all of Velious I was an active raider in Honored Circle (a decided second tier guild) and the The Hand (I felt we were the 3rd best guild on the server behind Harmonium and Altera Vita).

Even as a third place guild we got out mobs. I don't remember much leapfrogging at all. We all just understood that it would reflect on our reputation as a guild and would come back 10 fold if we tried to be asshats. We would hang out and follow others in some times to see if they would wipe. Some times if we had followed another guild in as they killed trash and they stopped for a long time to talk strategy and med, we would give them a short warning (like, engage in 3 min or we will). Anyway, the specifics don't matter so much.

As mmiles8 pointed out, we knew that if we could not work things out on our own, a gm or guide would show up and /ran 100. Nothing sucks worse than that, having the mob doled out randomly instead of on merit. So we settled on behavioral norms for the server, not in a grand guild council meeting, but just through the collective self centered actions of each party... good ol' invisible hand, Adam Smith stuff. That's not to say that we would reach the exact same equilibrium here on P99, but we would find some balance point.

[azeth]

Originally Posted by Dumesh Uhl'Belk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As mmiles8 pointed out, we knew that if we could not work things out on our own, a gm or guide would show up and /ran 100. Nothing sucks worse than that, having the mob doled out randomly instead of on merit. So we settled on behavioral norms for the server, not in a grand guild council meeting...

This ^. It's as if you could bypass the entire "strategy for resolving raid disputes" by implementing a rock solid consequence such as /random 100. In a situation where a dispute arises due to leapfrogging and a guide/GM shows up, allow the guide/GM to determine a time frame that an agreement must be reached between the guilds involved (something like 5-10 minutes). If both parties have not agreed by that time - /random 100.

"Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure."

[guineapig]

Good points Dumesh and Azeth.

If poopsocking is truly going to be done away with then the above ideas should be "good enough"...

I have yet to see much ostracizing on a guidl wide level on this server, but one would hope it would happen in this case.

[Tork]

You beg the question everyone wants poopsocking removed, which I know not to be true - viva la rants and flames~

[azeth]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just to clarify.. this has to do with a mob that is already spawned. We have a plan in place that we are announcing shortly that will deal with mobs that haven't spawned yet.

We aren't speaking in regards to poopsocking. This is a blast thread itending to solicit opinions/ideas on how to handle leapfrogging.