Weighted Point Value System - Serverwide Raid Idea Thread

[SwordNboard]

Keep variance, decrease timers drastically, whatever guild gets whatever target cannot get that target for 1 week. Repeat.

[Buriedpast]

Originally Posted by SwordNboard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Keep variance, decrease timers drastically, whatever guild gets whatever target cannot get that target for 1 week. Repeat.

So you want two guilds to alternate almost every mob in the game? Because if I kill trak, and can't for 7 days, you can bet I'll be camping that toon out elsewhere to secure yet another mob.

Bag limit FTW. 10 traks in a row, who cares, as everyone else knows I can only go for like 3 mobs now tops per week.

And this means VP guilds allow far more mobs for non VP guilds.

[Buriedpast]

This OP, I love it. 100% back it personally.

With 175 points per guild, works out best for fairness and reward for those of is already in a dominant position through hard work and dedication (TMO IB FE).

And variance taken down to just +- 12 hrs on all mobs except sky

And at least 1 monthly simulated repop at a random time (including VP) with no contribution to the bag limit

And VP capable guilds (TMO, FeIB) having to pay less for trak (say 25) to compensate for the fact we are keyed, and give incentive to remain VP as "exclusive" whilst not making us uncompetitive for other mobs.

And I think it is the most solid, reliable, EASY TO POLICE, and only one small coding change.

It's easy to understand.

It's easy to modify into velious.

And any other guilds want to be part, they have to be a guild for 30 days, and attain 100 points of kills in a simulated repop situation, for instance.

One single rule exists, you don't Poopsock with a named capable raid force except in planes of fear, and hate where one is acceptable only of the zone is being actively pulled with a minimum of 15 rmobs per hour kill rate, and then the raid force must log to just a tracker. For example.

Pooping anything else = a punishment. Definition of a Poopsock to be vague and grey and never up for argument. Just don't be fucks and lawyers.

[Buriedpast]

I'm IB, for reference.

Not that it should matter.

But this is, I'll say again, just excellent. The numbers need attention, but the basic principle and execution are so simple and easy to police.

For others, this is the kind of thing Rogean wants.
He doesn't want a rotation.
He doesn't want two guilds alternating 12 of 15 raid mobs.
He doesn't want petitions about convoluted shit.
He doesn't want poopsocking
He doesn't want huge tracking and extended variance windows
He doesn't want to have to code in policing for stupid raid rules.
He doesn't want to have his staffs time wasted by endgame guild crap. The 10/90 rule.

This is by far the most stable and fair I can see to meet his requests and requirements, to limit Gm interaction, and to make things absolutely white and black... Except poopsocking: just don't.

[DrKvothe]

Originally Posted by Buriedpast [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm IB, for reference.

Not that it should matter.

But this is, I'll say again, just excellent. The numbers need attention, but the basic principle and execution are so simple and easy to police.

For others, this is the kind of thing Rogean wants.
He doesn't want a rotation.
He doesn't want two guilds alternating 12 of 15 raid mobs.
He doesn't want petitions about convoluted shit.
He doesn't want poopsocking
He doesn't want huge tracking and extended variance windows
He doesn't want to have to code in policing for stupid raid rules.
He doesn't want to have his staffs time wasted by endgame guild crap. The 10/90 rule.

This is by far the most stable and fair I can see to meet his requests and requirements, to limit Gm interaction, and to make things absolutely white and black... Except poopsocking: just don't.

Well said.

Keep in mind that Velious is coming, and that a drastically changed server will require redefined raid rules. When velious gets here, there will be content that FEIB and TMO can handle but nobody else can. Should they be penalized for not letting the raid mobs sit around unengaged? Of course not.

I think that in the relatively (compared to the age of this server) short time until Velious, the point system is simple and effective enough. It also should be fairly simple for guild leaders to hash out the details before Rogean wtfpwns everyone for being asshats.

[Yinikren]

Thanks for your input motec. I am glad you like the system. As mentioned, point costs, etc do need work, but every other point you have mentioned is spot on with what I tried to make this plan to be.

Only thing I am worried about is Trak pricing for VP keys. If is price is dropped, he is easier to fit into a guilds point limit for the purpose of keeping other people out of VP. Trak, on top of dropping keys, also drops some of the best BPs in the game and, on top of that, has a quicker respawn timer than many mobs. IMO, he should be a bit more expensive so guilds would have to give up something to keep him permanently down. This gives more points for you guys to spend in VP and allows more guilds to start keying as we near the end of Velious.

[Reguiy]

I've gone back and forth on this whole subject. At first I was against a system like this, as I thought it would be too complicated. After reading most the brainstorming posts, I've come to the conclusion that the point system such as this is the only system that will work.

A rotation is just unfeasible. There would be faar too many guilds in the rotation already. Then new guilds would need to get a spot in the rotation as well, and who would decide which mobs they take, how they get in, how to plug them into the rotation, etc? Also, it leaves no room for competition. Essentially it would be free handouts and each guild would only get to kill about 2 mobs a week regardless of any competition edge they had.

The system we're currently using in the raid scene also wont work. It's far better than what we had before, but it's going to just end up with 2 guilds way on top, and maybe a 3rd getting the scraps. It was a good idea to get the ball rolling on a revamp of the raid scene, and it has worked while tmo hasn't been in the picture, but it's just not ideal in the long term.

There's more, but a couple of the last ideas would be a tier'd system where some weeks guilds could get a shot, and other weeks the lower end guilds could compete and practice. This wont work as most the time it is just going to the be exactly same shitshow, which is what the staff is trying to prevent.

And finally some of the last ideas are things that involve agreeing to no poopsocking or code which makes for racing to mobs instead of logging out, or just changing the game mechanics in general for when mobs spawn. There might be some brilliant coding solution to all our problems, but so far it seems like there'd be so many loop holes in those systems it would almost be impossible to implement.

So back to the weighted point system of the OP. It's very simple. Which I think is key for any raid system revamp. This system also allows for competition and racing to mobs that are high on your priority list, which I think is also key. And if the point system is adjusted well, then it wouldn't be one or two guilds completely monopolizing content. It would create a classic atmosphere where the top top guilds would get prime mobs, and the lower end guilds would compete for the mobs on the lower end of the spectrum.

Someone let me know if I've missed any raiding systems that have been brought up. But I feel this system is by far the best idea (once fine tuned, of course).

[falkun]

I like the concept!

As for adjusting the points-per-guild or wondering what would happen when a new guild enters, use a formula:
(c*M)/G=P

c: some constant percentage, which controls the amount of farming a guild can do over "their fair share."
M: total number of raid mob points per time period (700 is the number floating around this thread)
G: number of raid guilds receiving points.
P: The number of raid points each guild receives.

I would also simplify the points. Currently you have two tiers, 50 and 25 points. Simplify and set one tier to "2" and the other tier to "1". This makes the rest of the equation simpler and you'll have fewer remainder points in P. For instance you'd get 7.63 raid points (P) allowing you to kill 7 one-point mobs instead of 146 raid points which really only allows you to kill 125 raid points worth of mobs. Or you could account for this by adjusting the constant, c, depending on the number of raid guilds.

Also, this formula would deter guilds from fracturing into micro-guilds.

Finally, this does little to address PetitionQuesting. It will reduce petitions in those less desirable races, but when TMO, FE, IB, and BDA decide they all want to spend points on that one PD, VS, or Trak, Rogean & Co. are gonna have a bad day. Or if too many points remain (because too many extra have been handed out), then some guilds might decide to go after that last Sev before midnight on the last of the month because, "otherwise the points are wasted." I don't have much to offer on that point, but I'll continue to think about it.

[Buriedpast]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Finally, this does little to address PetitionQuesting. It will reduce petitions in those less desirable races, but when TMO, FE, IB, and BDA decide they all want to spend points on that one PD, VS, or Trak, Rogean & Co. are gonna have a bad day. .

What drugs are you on?

Why does 2 or 3 guilds going after a mob make it a shitfight? We are trying to change an entire servers behaviour to rules and rule lawyering and sense of entitlement. Stop thinking like people cant change.

VP is CSR/PNP, and as such PD would simply be FTE.

And if there is a few petitions, then rogean can suspend us for a month until we learn to play nice. Simply, TMO, FE, IB must learn to play nice. If we dont play nice, by using /random, or anything else, then disband and ban people.

I am sick of raiding bullshit, FRAPS, petitions. There should be none, and if we cant handle disputes with /random and just walk away, then whats the point of trying to play nice. In the meantime, if disputes happen between FE and TMO, or Taken and BDA, etc etc, then I think everyone should be suspended for not being a fucking adult.

[Yinikren]

Thank you for your input Falkun. My thinking (Not sure if it is correct) is that there *may* be less in the way of player confrontations because there *may* be mobs that are less contested. Guilds get pissed when TMO or IBFE kills Trak, VP, Gore, Sev, Talendor, the list goes on, never ending. I think guilds would be more willing to mitigate and agree on things if they know each guild is capped on mob intake, so they don't keep losing the next mobs to the same guilds.

Two problems I still see are variance needs to be reduced or eliminated for this to work. No variance then = poopsocking by default, even if the competition for each mob is lessened.