Asking a favor from the two top guilds on the server

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by AenarieFenninRo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if you put in some time and track the mobs, and let the upper tier guilds know you would like a shot at mob X, that those guilds have offered to be accommodating. I have yet to see any of these smaller guilds do this though

I believe that the smaller guilds don't track and batphone and such because they don't believe it is worth it. The people who are willing to "put in some time" in order for a chance at a dragon/god kill have already joined TMO or FE.

The people who are left generally refuse to be miserable for days in order for 15 minutes of fun. They find other ways to have as much fun as they can on the server while hoping that eventually the mechanics that promote zerg guilds, tracking, and batphoning get changed.

[finalgrunt]

Originally Posted by AenarieFenninRo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll start with this: i'm not against the idea, and that I hope something can be worked out to make everyone happy...

But I gotta ask, and not in a flame way but in all seriousness:

Does this feel to anyone else like kids asking for a participant trophy because they didn't take 1st / 2nd place in some sporting event?

The world has gone soft in so many ways that we want to make sure everyone is happy all the time at everyone else's expense, and it really does bother me. Growing up, if we didn't win, we didn't get a trophy, plain and simple. Now days, everyone gets a trophy for the most mundane crap and it's ridiculous, all in an effort to make everyone happy.

It seems in its way, that even when I was a kid, we had to do something instead of just requesting that no other team was on the field so they could kick the ball toward the goal in the hopes of it going in.

I'm not saying that something cant or shouldn't be worked out, but it seems to me that these smaller / minor / family oriented type of guilds need to put in SOME kind of effort rather than just asking for everyone else to stop killing mobs so that they have a chance to do so. This is in essence what I am seeing being requested here.

It has been stated MANY times by top guilds on the server... TMO / IB / VD / FE / whomever... pick an abbreviation... that if you put in some time and track the mobs, and let the upper tier guilds know you would like a shot at mob X, that those guilds have offered to be accommodating. I have yet to see any of these smaller guilds do this though. Keeping in mind that this may not be the case with certain targets such as Trakanon or VP or something, but there are other targets out there like Talendor, Serverilous, Nobles, Inny, etc etc

I am all for everyone having fun, and everyone getting a chance to do something they might not normally get the chance to do, but the proposals I have seen thus far are simply asking the other teams to step off the field of play so that someone else can have a go at it.

Disclaimer: These are personal views, and not that of any guild, so please don't try to make the associations between my own views and that of the guild I belong to.

If we follow this logic, there shouldn't be seperate leagues. There shouldn't be distinction between men and women. "Sorry girlz, but you need to step up your game if you want to win that medal!".

It's a request to have a regular time window in which 2nd league guilds would be able to compete among each other. By investing so much time and effort, top guilds would still get to enjoy an overwhelming part of the content (we're talking non priority targets here ...). Which happens to be from a 13 y.o game on an emu server and now, we're pretty much all adults if I'm not mistaken. I don't see why we couldn't agree on something that trivial really.

Lastly, at the moment, no details were discussed on how would small guilds manage that window. So in my opinion, there would still be competition involved.

In conclusion, if that's what you want to hear, yes, players in smaller guilds don't come near the two current top guilds involvement. However, I didn't really see anybody claiming otherwise. And if you're "all for everyone having fun, and everyone getting a chance to do something they might not normally get the chance to do", then you should support this request too [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[AenarieFenninRo]

I have tried to be very civil throughout this thread, and said many times that I would like to see some system worked out... but i'm now moving away from this because its broken down once again into enforced rotation talks for pages on end.

Originally Posted by AenarieFenninRo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It seems in its way, that even when I was a kid, we had to do something instead of just requesting that no other team was on the field so they could kick the ball toward the goal in the hopes of it going in.

I am all for everyone having fun, and everyone getting a chance to do something they might not normally get the chance to do, but the proposals I have seen thus far are simply asking the other teams to step off the field of play so that someone else can have a go at it.

I said it before, and i'm re-quoting it now... all this talk of "rotations" equates to my statements above. Now people are talking about "they have X time to engage or it goes FTE". "make the GMs enforce it"

So to continue the analogy, you make everyone get off the field for 20 mins / 4 hours / 24 hours / whatever... and all stand on the sidelines and watch you, and when you miss the goal they all bum rush the mob.

You're also requiring the GMs to stand and watch as referees to determine who's turn it is to be the lone player on the field, and make sure nobody interferes with you, and then blow the whistle for the free for all wtf800 people on the mob.

So why wait the 20 mins / 4 hours / 24 hours when the free for all is already the situation when a mob spawns?

Nobody is stopping smaller guilds from running 3 people in for an FTE snipe. Nobody is saying that the smaller guilds cant have a go at targets. You're putting these restrictions on yourselves because you "dont want to deal with the R&F / Fallout / etc"... I see it as you wanting someone else to do the work for you with tracking and just let you know when its your turn.

Grow a pair, and let them hang low.

Alarti came in here yesterday at 11am saying:

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would like to offer divnity an opportunity here to show up at the next trakanon and compete. BDA, Taken, etc are invited also.

Trakanon spawned 3 hours later... it was again, TMO and FE. Where were ya'll? But somehow this is probably our fault right? I mean, we're the big bad wolf here... so saying why not come down for Trak and none of you showing is our fault?

Even given a straight up invite to come down to the mob, you dont show up... maybe we should have petitioned "Trakanon is up, please alert the small guilds so we can watch them engage it and hope they fail for our turn" because someone else "deserves" a go at it right? All our tracking of the target was pointless because we've killed him too many times yah?

To quote "A Knight's Tale"
You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting.

[Chedduh]

bad player calling guilds bad, hilarious

[KotBK]

Aenarie please read what you type, you tell others not to base assumptions about you or your guild then that is all you yourself are making of others.

Who are you to say all these other guilds aren't or haven't been making "some kind of effort"? You have no idea as you aren't even fully aware of what your own guild does 24/7 or what each member believes. Please just be quiet or bring something intellectual to the table other than blatant hypocrisy.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by KotBK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aenarie please read what you type, you tell others not to base assumptions about you or your guild then that is all you yourself are making of others.

Who are you to say all these other guilds aren't or haven't been making "some kind of effort"? You have no idea as you aren't even fully aware of what your own guild does 24/7 or what each member believes. Please just be quiet or bring something intellectual to the table other than blatant hypocrisy.

I agree with some of what Aenarie is saying. There isn't much effort being made by these guilds to get targets. Yes I understand they don't want to have to do any tracking, organizing, etc because they think that it won't pay off, but honestly like others have said if you don't put in some effort no one is going to take you seriously. The only guild outside of tmo/fe that I've seen tracking lately was divinity a few sevs ago. I'm sure others have done it, but that's just the only guild i've seen doing anything.

If you want some of these mobs put forth some effort during your guilds best raiding hours and I think this would be received much better. That still covers most of the arguments being made about not wanting to batphone at 3 am, poopsock, camp chars etc.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree with some of what Aenarie is saying. There isn't much effort being made by these guilds to get targets. Yes I understand they don't want to have to do any tracking, organizing, etc because they think that it won't pay off, but honestly like others have said if you don't put in some effort no one is going to take you seriously. The only guild outside of tmo/fe that I've seen tracking lately was divinity a few sevs ago. I'm sure others have done it, but that's just the only guild i've seen doing anything.

If you want some of these mobs put forth some effort during your guilds best raiding hours and I think this would be received much better. That still covers most of the arguments being made about not wanting to batphone at 3 am, poopsock, camp chars etc.

It just gets escalated. Smaller guilds could track and campout for Sev and then from there it turns into people standing on the spawn point waiting to pull, then it turns into raids sitting on the spawn point. The level of stupidity doesn't stop, and that's assuming you can even catch a spawn in your guild's window of opportunity and get the pull before TMO or FE and get your raid force online to kill the pull in under 2 minutes. Again, it's all preposterous.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It just gets escalated. Smaller guilds could track and campout for Sev and then from there it turns into people standing on the spawn point waiting to pull, then it turns into raids sitting on the spawn point. The level of stupidity doesn't stop, and that's assuming you can even catch a spawn in your guild's window of opportunity and get the pull before TMO or FE and get your raid force online to kill the pull in under 2 minutes. Again, it's all preposterous.

the only mob that has had anything close to your assumption happen since the patch was inny, and even that was small scale with like single groups sitting up in hate still pulling exp/armor mobs.

again even if you only did some tracking during your guild's prime hours it is showing some effort which isn't being shown now by most of the guilds asking for this opportunity.

[AenarieFenninRo]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It just gets escalated. Smaller guilds could track and campout for Sev and then from there it turns into people standing on the spawn point waiting to pull, then it turns into raids sitting on the spawn point. The level of stupidity doesn't stop, and that's assuming you can even catch a spawn in your guild's window of opportunity and get the pull before TMO or FE and get your raid force online to kill the pull in under 2 minutes. Again, it's all preposterous.

Did you tell anyone in TMO for FE that you were doing that?

How do we know you're camping out for the mob and are intent on engaging it?

My basic state has been, let others know, this still holds true.

For as much as we bitch about each other in R&F, I am sure that if someone came to FE or TMO and said "hey, we would like to try Sev this week if it spawns between 5pm and 9pm" TMO and FE could have a civil discussion with each other about it.

[arsenalpow]

Honestly fuck both of you. I've spent countless hours tracking for mobs, updating windows, camping out characters, rallying the troops, and boosting morale when it's all for naught. I've watched multiple guilds shatter under the weight of what equates to chemical warfare between the infiltration of guild forums, the posting of RL pictures, and hemorhagging members to the zergs. Raiding on this server is fundamentally broken. Both of you are basically saying "try harder" when everyone knows that means be more like TMO and FE. This isn't a job for most people, it's a fucking 13 old emulated Everquest server.

The barrier of entry to raiding is staggering and even when you do eventually reach the goal of VP there's always the boogeyman of training to deal with. Here's a PSA to anyone new on this server that wants to attain raid loot, join TMO or FE. Be prepared to log out your character at a designated target for days at a time and have the availability to log in 24 hours a day to earfuck said target with 40 other guildmates while dodging the trains and shenanigans of the rival guild. That's what raiding on P99 is. It's not competition, it's not fun, it's attrition. Get used to it or find a new game.