[Opinion] EQ Next - Game Changers/Breakers

[ajellis6976]

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't understand the hate towards instanced zones. Just because WoW instanticized the dungeons doesn't mean that it was a bad idea.

I mean, look at the way we (or at least, I) play P1999. I look for zones that are not that populated so I can get a group / get decent EXP. I skipped unrest almost entirely this leveling up path because often times there were too many people. And, if I had a group, some 6 people, that was awesome. Usually, though, I was wishing that we were the ONLY group in the zone so we could have more pulls. Sure, the higher level camp is there and that's fine, as long as they don't pull from us.

This extrapolates into the end game as well. We have a bunch of 'hardcore' raiders out there who want to slay dragons, and we all can't. Well, if things were instanced, we certainly could.

Instances that were difficult, and that produced loot on a weekly cadence, allows for a healthy server size without the need to grief each other and the necessity of a RnF board that plagues this forum. Do I think that being able to teleport and get assigned to random people from a pool of 50,000 is a good idea? No.

But, then again, if you want EQNext to be a success, and I'm going to assume you do, you are going to need subscriber bases reaching into the millions (hopefully). When talking about how to fit all those people in there - do you make 1000 servers with 1000 people each in them? That's way too many servers! And the bad ones get vacant and waste those peoples time. You need consolidation - you need higher numbers to have a community thrive if there are multiples. P1999 works because this is only 1 private server - not a brand new MMO catering to the multitudes.

The answer to this is instancing. Instance the dungeons because let's face it, at level 10 there will be thousands of people all wanting to go do those dungeons. Can you imagine 100 people in a dungeon like unrest? Can you imagine 1000? And if you don't instance, what is the answer? Make the dungeon HUGE!! But then the dungeon becomes out of scale for your world, with so many camps. You won't be able to memorize the layout or kill the choice rare because there'd have to be so MANY of them - enough to maybe satisfy 200-300 people at any given time.

The alternative to that, if you don't instance, is to make the WORLD huge - make everyone so spread out that we don't have this problem. Instancing gives us virtual real estate without the cost of spreading out the world to it's limits.

If I was going to redo it, I would certainly do instancing, with the following caveats:

24 hour timer on any instance - you go in, you're locked to it for 24 hours, no massive clears & reclears
No teleportation to instance - you have to find it.
No dungeon finder - you have to find your group.
Death = bind point, naked, none of this pansy spawning at the ent and walking back in.
Drops are not guaranteed - loot tables exist, but the item you want / any item doesn't necessarily have to drop.

I added the last one because the problem with instancing is item bloat. In WoW, everything is bind on pickup or bind on equip - very few things don't bind! Trading items is one of the best things about EQ to me, and I'd like to keep that going forward. If you want to keep items rare, then there needs to be thresholds to how many of X item can drop in a given day. This is already done by the laws enforcing p1999 (spawn rate, loot table, etc) and can be done in a more sophisticated way in the present day. THis way, FBSS are still awesome, they drop just as frequently, and are still tradeable. Giving everyone a FBSS per run sucks - and that's why instancing sucked in WoW - you are no longer special, just another toon.

After reading this post it became obvious, quickly, that although you play on p1999 you didn't or don't remember the early days of eq. Instances can easily be done without and as for tons of people wanting to instance in the same zone, you'll adapt.

[tops419]

Wow, that was a long thread to read-

I don't think a completely non-instanced game can work; this is 2013, not 2000. If there is a mob which drops something valuable people will camp it to no end. I think Project1999 is a very good illustration of the failures of a non-instanced world in today's world.
People will take it overboard and despite how most "normal" people think that the players whom camp these items will eventually get enough and move-on, they will not. Seriously, look at the people who were camping the same items 2 years ago on this server... many, many are still here camping the same items. Why? I'm not quite sure but they are persistent and strangely dedicated to "earning" game currency and such.
Also, gold farming is only becoming more and more widespread. In a game which will surely not regulate multiboxing, I think it's naive to think that goldfarmers will not have many, many bots going at once, locking down several important camps.

I think vanilla wow (comparing it to later versions is really apples to oranges) held a GREAT balance as far as instancing dungeons, yet still having a huge distribution of gear. It was rare to see anyone with more than a few things the same as yourself, unless you were sort of endgame, which is equally true of classic EQ.

And, as far as seeing everyone wear the same thing as yourself--- Don't you think EQ was pretty much one of the worst games ever in that sense?

I really hope they do have an in-game store. I have played modern eq a mild amount and I thought the store is a great way to allow a huge population increase from F2P players, whilst also increasing the playability for those willing to spend $. It's not truly Play-to-win as only mounts, xp potions, and bags are sold (among other cosmetic things). There is no "instant level", "instant heal", or such. I'm sure many folks are playing p1999 not only because of the great game it is, but because it also doesn't affect their pocketbook.

Last, if the store gives people the ability to buy platinum or whatever the currency is, good. This further alleviates the burden off the rest of the population to financially support the structure of the game and significantly reduces the incentive for illicit RMT to occur which can destroy a community. There just needs to be significant ways to remove money from the game such as mounts, casino's ( Which I think are very fun and immersive, if executed correctly), spells, and cosmetics. Speaking of such, I think epic mounts in vanilla wow were probably one of the best executed methods of removing tons of currency from the game in a way which did not feel silly (such as the shadowhaven casino) and gave the player a sense of value.

[Razdeline]

Yeah I think some people have too much of an appeal to wow. No place for that here. Instances are the first step to destroying the social aspect of the game.

Id rather have open world content that is unpredictable. Rather than an instance which turns into a steamrolled easymode dance-dance revolution, American idol fuckfest.

[tops419]

And just to pose another question for those completely against instanced zones or encounters of any sort...
EQ is probably one of the largest worlds ever created. Yet, do you honestly feel there's enough game to go around for everyone who wants to play on this server? I mean, I understand that many people will respond with "well if they can't hang, then F-them" or "they don't deserve it" or "Thats the fun" or something with that general sentiment. But, the single most important thing to remember is that for a game to be successful, have dedicated devs, have a decent population, and strong financial support it cannot be a game of attrition. There must be some balance struck between offering all players a sense of accomplishment and opportunity and the hardcore players a level of separation and superiority.
If you cannot agree on some middle ground between these two things, you are forever destined to exclusively play on underdeveloped, underfunded, and underpopulated games such as P1999 or Wurm Online or the like.

All that being said. P1999 is a really great, nostalgic experience. Yet, the moment you choose to try to camp some select item you've been wanting, complete an epic, or raid in general; you find that there is not an opportunity for the <20 hour a week player.

[Rhuma7]

lol @ buying currency and not being "pay to win"

You new to MMOs? If i can start from scratch day 1 and buy 10 million platinum out of thin air on p99 what do you think is going to happen to p99 and the economy?

WTS Flowing black silk sash 150 mil pst

Lets do some math.

1000 players x 100k = 100,000,000

Lets compare to a mainstream MMO like WoW back in the day, per server.

5000 x 100k = 500,000,000

How much would a company charge for currency? $10 for 1k? $90 for 100k? I know people that spend THOUSANDS on in-game stores on EMULATED servers.

$1000 @$90/100k*1000 players = 1,111,000,000. out of thin, fucking, air.

End result: no.

[t0lkien]

In which case, a game like EQ is not for you, or you just have to live without the top items. This idea that everyone deserves the best is, quite honestly, nonsense. There are other ways to get things anyway. Get things you can, sell them, save, buy from others what you want. No, it's not going to be easy. That's what makes it more challenging, and so more rewarding in the end, and meaningful within the game world.

I would challenge the entire premise that the game needs to offer you everything you want on your terms. If you want that experience, you've got every other game out there. Take your pick. There are scores of games grabbing for mass market mediocrity with everything they've got. You are literally spoiled for choice. For the hardcore niche and those who want a slower, deeper experience there is EQ and (hopefully) other games like it. It's not mass market, by design (and yet EQ was the biggest MMO in it's day - which says something about what a significant number of players really want).

[tops419]

Sorry for all the WoW references on my part. I just really enjoyed the vanilla era of the game as I did the EQ -Kunark/Velious era. I think they were easily the two best "modern" MMORPG's ever made. I think because of the dramatic changes wow has experienced over the past 10 years, many folks have become a bit sour to even the mention of it (Remeber, im talking about wow 10 years ago)... in reality vanilla WoW was, with the exception of death penalties (maybe negated by costly repairs?), very much on par with the difficulty of EQ. Especially considering many end-game items were much more difficult and time-consuming to get than anything I can think of in EQ.

[Nune]

dat corpse run

[Rhuma7]

Originally Posted by tops419 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry for all the WoW references on my part. I just really enjoyed the vanilla era of the game as I did the EQ -Kunark/Velious era. I think they were easily the two best "modern" MMORPG's ever made. I think because of the dramatic changes wow has experienced over the past 10 years, many folks have become a bit sour to even the mention of it (Remeber, im talking about wow 10 years ago)... in reality vanilla WoW was, with the exception of death penalties (maybe negated by costly repairs?), very much on par with the difficulty of EQ. Especially considering many end-game items were much more difficult and time-consuming to get than anything I can think of in EQ.

Maybe as a casual it was "hard" and "time consuming" to get gear in vanilla WoW.

but to say it was... much more than EQ? This man is a troll.

They had instanced zones with no competition for end-game raid content best in slot gear lol that shit was like getting your food stamps on the 1st of the month, just apply and bam, steak dinner.

[tops419]

Originally Posted by Rhuma7 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol @ buying currency and not being "pay to win"

You new to MMOs? If i can start from scratch day 1 and buy 10 million platinum out of thin air on p99 what do you think is going to happen to p99 and the economy?

WTS Flowing black silk sash 150 mil pst

You 100% can buy as much platinum as you want on P1999 or any other game you choose to. It will just be an illicit transaction that starts a chain of events that really works to ruin the server and its economy. If purchased from the server and offset with sufficient ways to remove currency from the game, it does not have "such" a bad effect on the game.

I like to think of it like legalizing marijuana- People will do it anyway, by legalizing it, you reduce the burden on those that must regulate it, reduce the incentive to obtain it illicitly, and provide financial support to the system. Of course there are downsides, but in what situation aren't there?

Also, assuming you pay 10$ per 100k plat, what is that, like 1000$ for your 10 mil plat? How many people do you think would be willing to spend that much money for currency? Not enough to throw the economy into the disarray you mentioned.