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#1
06-12-2013, 10:00 PM
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I absolutely loved WoW instancing back in the day. BRD took a solid 3-4 hours and gave me purpose to my grind session without relying on quests - a true dungeon crawling experience. Often times in EQ you get to a camp and just sit there and that's fine and all, but doing something with purpose can be way more rewarding. SoE realized this w/ LDoN. WoW popularized this and is the most popular MMO to date. Instancing was integral to that success, because everyone could do Wailing Caverns, everybody thought it was somewhat hard, and everyone thought it was fun. A lot of what Classic EQ brought to the table was a lack of technological innovation. You just can't support a large playerbase without instances. The only reason EQ lasted as long as it did with as high subs as it did is because the world spread out so bad and the top end content was so hard, whether it was the content itself or the keying process, that not a lot of people had contention in the top end. I remember raiding VT while other guilds were in PoP, others in eles, and others in Time. I remember climbing that ladder and thinking how much it would suck if there was fierce competition - there just wasn't because the world had gotten so huge and stratified. A new game, with the appropriate amount of players, can't survive uninstanced. It just really can't. GW2 tackled this problem by having phasing instances so zones could expand and contract based on how many people were using them - everything was an instanced zone. I didn't like that method because you didn't really get to know people that way. I want a persistent world, that has dungeons that are instances, that's all. I just hope it gets done right. | |||
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#2
06-12-2013, 10:25 PM
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I... hmm. I feel like you're talking about apples and oranges here. Talking about unrest being busy and so we need instances? OF COURSE unrest is busy. It's a tiny-ass zone with an amazing XP mod that everyone is told to go to if they don't want to be in MM. Couple that with the fact that even untwinked players on p99 have amazing gear compared to untwinked players on live and that twinked players would have made live-kunark-era 60s jelly and... well... yeah, of course unrest is too busy. But a new MMO doing a modern take on the old EQ mechanics wouldn't need to be like that. There'd be many ways to fix the problems of non-instancing without all the negatives of instancing. Speaking of negatives of instancing, I think Rooj captured most of my sentiment on the subject: Quote:
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#3
06-13-2013, 05:40 PM
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Didn't read thread so don't know if it was mentioned, but obviously instances are going to need to be in any newer MMO. Look at the 1k people we have here and the literal every day crying over how TMO gets this, or someone is always camping that.
But what I am thinking of are not instanced dungeons, but instanced zones. Think every 60-100 people a new zone opens. Besides the first zone, a newer version of the zone can only be spawned whenever atleast 20-30 people want to get in, or else you have to wait in a que and farm outside of the zone etc etc...... New zones would have a decreased chance for the "bosses" to pop right at zone in. But to also get it where you have to use multiple zones, or wait for the zone you would like, would have to have a max instance limit, say 3 per zone. So say you really like Mistmoore, but its packed, you have to go to Overthere. Same here, if there are already 3 full instances you have to wait for your spot, or go somewhere else. Raiding is a whole other subject, but I always thought it'd be simple as hell to do instance raids is 2nd best gear while open world raid bosses drop top end gear. But a full 2nd tier skilled player can beat a full top end mediocre player in a duel.
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#4
06-12-2013, 10:31 PM
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/shrug | |||
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#5
06-12-2013, 10:44 PM
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The developers mentioned something during the Everquest Series panel at E3 that I thought was very interesting, and could possibly be a hint at their stance on instanced content.
They mentioned that EQ2 was moving to a system where there is open world competition for bosses, but there are also instanced "practice arenas" where guilds can hone their skills against avatars of the bosses for lesser rewards. You'll still want to compete for the open world boss, but if you don't get it, you'll still have content. I can see the same type of thing for instanced zones. Have the open world camps for the good loot, and instanced zones as back up for those who want competition free experience camps. EDIT: The devs have also mentioned that EQN will be a "do what you want" kind of character experience, so I'm assuming you'll be able to level off of crafting and possibly other forms of gameplay, like diplomacy, trade, or even farming (crops, not loot... /puke). | ||
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Last edited by Kiwaukee; 06-12-2013 at 10:47 PM..
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#6
06-12-2013, 10:57 PM
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I would like EQN to basically be a new fresh MMO with Everquest 1 classes/mechanics with un-instanced dungeons/leveling areas and instanced end-game raids.
Slow enough leveling to make friends and learn your class. Items that are rare enough to give meaning/rewarding feeling when acquiring them. I also feel there should be world-dropped items, so while grinding out the levels and making friends you have a very slim chance of getting a very nice item for your level range. Death penalty can be bad but EQ really needed to have more availability to rez and corpse summoning spells much earlier than when they were given to classes. EDIT: I dont really want them to reinvent the wheel but to give a breath of fresh air to the Everquest franchise with a few fixes to some of the mistakes they made over the years and give the fans that made them a success in the first place something to come back to and enjoy playing a new MMO. | ||
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Last edited by Rhuma7; 06-12-2013 at 11:05 PM..
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#7
06-12-2013, 11:02 PM
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Instanced zones ruin the community IMO. I can remember very few player names from my time playing WoW because everyone was just a body. People really didn't need to talk to each other, after a while it felt like everyone was the same just with different letters above their characters head.
I can remember countless people that I played with in the first few EQ expansions due to the smaller numbers per server and the fact that you'd have to actually go to the zone you wanted to hunt in and try and get a group together or join one that was already going. I know EQN won't be anything like EQ was or is currently. The way people play MMO's these days isn't remotely close to how we played them 10-15 years ago. I'm just curious, if it was up to you, what would you add and what can you not live without? | ||
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#8
06-13-2013, 10:58 AM
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When I played WoW i missed the open world competition for things. I missed doing camps like lguk or seb where when you get in a crypt group there is this sense of "awesome, all this great shit can drop to earn me money". I missed the feeling of dominance from racing to the world spawns. They had a few in original WoW (emerald dragons and 2 other guys blanking on their names) but they were primarily secondary targets with lower priority than the instances. At the same time, the lack of instances makes the playability of the game suck for people who have real life obligations. This server is a perfect example. Every guild as far as I know maintains a CST/EST raid schedule, ie be on at 5/6pm CST on raid day so we can see what is up and move on hate, fear, whatever. That is great, but I am in California and that is 4PM for me. I am lucky enough that my job is flexible enough that I simply decided to come in earlier and leave earlier to be home by 4 but shit, if you worked a typical 9-5 + drive time you would easily be 1.5 hrs + late for every raid (aka miss most of it). In WoW you could have east coast & west coast guilds because you could schedule raids based around the play times of the players and that was honestly very nice although casual. I could see some sort of combination put in where using EQ terminology: Seb = non instanced therefor trak = non instanced kc = non instanced therefor vs = non instanced All the outdoor dragons obviously non instanced vp = instance Hate = instance (including inny & maestro) Fear = instanced (including ct & draco) Sky = instanced (including nobles) This would allow shit like trak to cock block lesser guilds on getting keyed to VP, this still maintaining the tiering of guilds. It would also allow casual guilds to actually be casual and have set raid times and still accomplish shit like killing gods etc.
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#9
06-13-2013, 10:55 AM
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#10
06-12-2013, 09:59 PM
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An instance typically means a repetitive linear dungeon with little to no exploration. Even though trains are annoying, I'd still rather have trains than instances. Your experience in an open world dungeon is normally somewhat different every time, unlike the usual instance. I think it's neat to run into other players that you may or may not know in open dungeons. The lack of exploration in instances seems to be the main reason that EQ type players dislike instances. Compare a dungeon like Lower Guk to Hellfire Citadel for example... I mean come on.
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