Raid Changes

[Fountree]

Giegue, don't you think there was some discussion about whether or not we'd go for Inny last night since Divinity was already up there? Think you know what the decision turned out to be [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Fountree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Giegue, don't you think there was some discussion about whether or not we'd go for Inny last night since Divinity was already up there? Think you know what the decision turned out to be [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sure what you're trying to say is, "we could have gotten every single spawn if we wanted to", but then I know we beat you guys to the patch-day Inny before this one (because you ported up in full force by the time we just finished killing both inny and maestro). So I thank you for your generosity but let's be clear, you can't possibly kill every single spawn before at least one casual guild even gets one mob, and if you could last night, then it was an exception.
Smiley face so this doesn't seem passive aggressive: [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Fountree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Giegue, don't you think there was some discussion about whether or not we'd go for Inny last night since Divinity was already up there? Think you know what the decision turned out to be [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you trying to be constructive?

Divinity killed Inny and Maestro thanks in part to TMO not being after them; I doubt anyone in any guild would argue otherwise. But it's not like you could have killed Inny and Maestro without at least risking losing something else. If that were the case, then you WOULD have gone to hate instead of "leaving" the kills to Divinity.

[Itap]

Originally Posted by Fountree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Giegue, don't you think there was some discussion about whether or not we'd go for Inny last night since Divinity was already up there? Think you know what the decision turned out to be [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can't decide if this post is hinting towards generosity, or sympathy

[falkun]

Giegue beat me to it. The top guild can poopsock their primary target every respawn, at least one other guild is going to get at least one other mob, which is above the average for most "normal" weeks.

[Swish]

I don't get it, Sirken responds to:-

we would implement a script to work with the current variance system (to an extent) but just have a 10 minute notice and shut the server down for like a 10-20 minutes or so during peak times

...which is probably enough time to get the majority of a guild to a desired location if not buffed if they're quick about it. I hate to say it but he's right, variance should stay as it is for the sake of the smaller guilds.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't get it, Sirken responds to:-



...which is probably enough time to get the majority of a guild to a desired location if not buffed if they're quick about it. I hate to say it but he's right, variance should stay as it is for the sake of the smaller guilds.

You know small guilds know how to prepare for repops too right?
edit: to be fair to Fountree, I'm sure he's not lying when he says they purposely didn't race us for Inny. But that doesn't mean we would have been beaten to it, or if we would have, that this time wasn't an exception. We've historically done well on server repops, as have all the other small guilds I think, and it's not just because the "big guilds" were generous, it's because they were overstretched and couldn't feasibly get every raid mob when they all spawned simultaneously. Whether they backed off of competing for Inny or not is a red herring.
edit2: again, I don't want to sound rude or ungrateful! Just trying to stay on topic and say why simultaneous repops are better than no repops.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't get it, Sirken responds to:-



...which is probably enough time to get the majority of a guild to a desired location if not buffed if they're quick about it. I hate to say it but he's right, variance should stay as it is for the sake of the smaller guilds.

A few things.

1. You SHOULD hate to say that, because saying that makes you sound like a moron.

2. The OP didn't actually say he wanted to get rid of variance. Personally I had to read it (and most things this guy posts) like 4 times before I could feel confident that I knew what he was trying to say, but still, he didn't say he wanted to get rid of variance, he said he was thinking a once-a-week repop in addition to the current raid system would be good.

3. For purposes of this thread, I don't see how it matters if guilds can or can't mobilize to a spawn point in the time between "server coming down in x minutes" and the server actually coming down, because TMO can't have a raid force on every spawn the moment the server comes up, nor can they kill everything before other guild(s) could primetime mobilize to TMO's lower-priority targets.

[Sirken]

yes i read the original post. i'm thinking i didnt make my response clear enough. i'll try again.

lazortag, youre very right, your guild would have a better chance at raid targets that the top guild no longer wants/needs or considers a priority. and you may even sneak a VS, though they'd be far and few between.

down side is this, it would limit trak kills to the top guild, and as such, would limit VP to the top guild. 10 min is MORE than enough time for the top guild to camp out at ledge.

odds are the #2 guild would start locking down the raid mobs that they can take from the top guild. so most likely, you'd get even less VS kills than you do now.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yes i read the original post. i'm thinking i didnt make my response clear enough. i'll try again.

lazortag, youre very right, your guild would have a better chance at raid targets that the top guild no longer wants/needs or considers a priority. and you may even sneak a VS, though they'd be far and few between.

down side is this, it would limit trak kills to the top guild, and as such, would limit VP to the top guild. 10 min is MORE than enough time for the top guild to camp out at ledge.

odds are the #2 guild would start locking down the raid mobs that they can take from the top guild. so most likely, you'd get even less VS kills than you do now.

Less VS kills than we get now? So you mean less than 1 over the span of 2 years? Oh no, anything but that!

Sarcasm aside, my point is that having mobs spawn separately from each other at random times of the day makes it easier for larger guilds to monopolize content. When things spawn simultaneously, smaller guilds get more chances at mobs than normal. For evidence of this fact, see: every single server reset that has ever happened on this server, and probably many on Live.

You might be right that Trak/VS are nearly impossible for casual guilds to kill on a server repop because the top guilds can be certain of when they will spawn. The thing is, they are nearly impossible for casual guilds to get on varianced spawns even when the top guilds don't know when they'll spawn, again, as evidenced by this server's entire history. When has a small guild ever killed Trak? We got close a few times, but it was either on a repop or when TMO was raid suspended. Smaller guilds don't have large enough raid forces to kill those mobs within the minute or so that they are alive after spawning, so I'd say our chances are just as good if not better if we know beforehand when they'll spawn. If our chances are worse, it's a wash, since those aren't a priority for us and our 18 man raid force at this time.

I should add that these simultaneous repops are good for GM's, too, because all the raiding is condensed into an hour or two, and there are usually less raid disputes, so it means you have less work to do over the week.

Let me ask you this: why do you think small guilds currently almost never get any mobs outside of server repops? Do you honestly think it's because of lack of skill, or because we just don't try hard enough? Or do you think it's more likely that waiting for an average of 48 hours for a small chance at pixels is a monumental waste of time?

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

also right now, some of the server resets already do repop all the raid mobs.

and i know some top guilds send out the batsignal any time the server comes down for any reason just in case there's a full respawn.

having it happen 100% of the time makes it more predictable, anything that's more predictable will be taken advantage of by which ever guild is currently at the top of the food chain.

the variance ONLY exists to give other guilds a shot at the raid mobs. if it didnt exist, then for example, if GuildA kills trak, the rest of the server only knows when trak is due if they can find out exactly when he died. with a variance, you only need a ball park idea of when the mob died to figure out the window. Furthermore, GuildA would know EXACTLY when to log in the raid force, as opposed to being at the mercy of a variance, like everyone else.

guilds with trackers/scouts and with mandatory batphones will always get to mobs before guilds that dont use these things, because they can mobilize faster.

Pretty much every content patch results in a full repop. It's not just the "big guilds" that send raid alerts and prepare for repops - we do it too. As for the variance existing to make things easier for the little guy, I will again direct you to this server's long history of the variance being extremely unfavorable to smaller guilds. If you think it should help us, why hasn't it? :p

edit again: just to be clear, I'm not saying "get rid of the variance entirely" (shortening it to +/- 12 hours would be tolerable), I'm saying simultaneous repops are best. They're also classic. Let's not try to fix what isn't broken.