Asking a favor from the two top guilds on the server

[Aaryonar]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

honestly, its the first time ive heard it. but to increase it's chances, i'd try to get in touch with nilbog or rogean via petition forum or irc or PM. as the decision makers probably wont be reading page 21 of a thread subject that has come up multiple times and generally recycles the same exact stuff from the previously similar threads

What if my favourite GM in the known universe brought it up with them?
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] might have a better chance then, too.

I kid, I kid.


But seriously! Anyone who wants 0 variance in this thread has it backwards. TMO will literally get everything and no rotation will be made ever. If you want targets, you want full random variance. That's your best chance at content, as any other model offers a max/min player a way to max/min it.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

um, are u trying to imply that its impossible to lock down mobs while maintaining honorable status? or are u saying that simply the guilds TMO and FE are without honor because of the way that THEY lock down mobs?

Sorry, I'll skip the implication, allow me to directly state this:

Under the current rule set, it is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain any sort of honor and simultaneously lock down mobs.

You're only here to enforce the rules, you've made that perfectly clear; but as long as the staff condones the FTE shenanigans, the "accidental" training, starting DT cycles to stall other guild's attempts, leapfrogging, etc It is impossible to maintain any sort of honor. The "honorable" guild either a) turns the other cheek EVERY single time, or b) resorts to the same dirty tactics that are used by the competition

BDA is a 100% example of this. We have strong leadership at BDA and we were forced to push the envelope to areas that we had never considered before in order to compete. We aren't going to train people just because it's legal, we aren't going to blatantly start DT cycles to stop another guild's attempt, and we aren't going to "accidentally" train other guilds.

As long as those tactics are available for use (condoned by staff) they will be implemented by the playerbase. People will always push the envelope for pixels, just look at the fun that's being had with IP exemptions.

[OMGWTF420]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

or are u saying that simply the guilds TMO and FE are without honor because of the WAY that THEY lock down mobs?

whats honorable about FTE sniping, rules lawyering, training, zerging? because that is how those guilds got to where they were.... isnt it?

[Aaryonar]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

well said sir. are variances perfect? absolutely not, and i think the staff has admitted this by making changes to the variance and how it works. and we'll continue to make tweaks as the staff feels is needed to ensure a successful and competitive future for the server.

Any thoughts on my specific suggestion? Anyone I've discussed it with has been unable to find a single flaw in the logic. If there is no set time, or even a set window, then no guild has a best chance and every guild has an equal chance - like even moreso than a repop day. Why is this not a consideration on the chopping block?

Also, if there are changes to the variance in the future, can you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE not let us know any specifics? The most recent change to variance would have literally blown this raid-scene up bigtime if the exact equation for it wasn't detailed in the announcement post. I don't want to know when a dragon might spawn. It would be a nicer surprise.

[Emphase]

Originally Posted by Aaryonar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any thoughts on my specific suggestion? Anyone I've discussed it with has been unable to find a single flaw in the logic. If there is no set time, or even a set window, then no guild has a best chance and every guild has an equal chance - like even moreso than a repop day. Why is this not a consideration on the chopping block?.

I like your idea a lot, it did remind me of live actually. I've ran through DL a few times and almost ran right into Gorenaire in the process. I agree with 100% variance. maybe some day it will get a shot and we will see it on this server

[kenzar]

Originally Posted by Aaryonar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If there is no set time, or even a set window, then no guild has a best chance and every guild has an equal chance

An equal chance does not necessarily equate to equality.

-100% removal of variance
-strictly enforced rotating target schedule for any guild wanting on the list
-24 hours allotted to down your guilds target. Failure to do so is a forfeit, and the boss becomes FTE.
-Breaking rotation results in raid suspensions. Habitually breaking the rotation, results in a guild disbanding.
-Raid interference (training/starting DT cycles/what have you) is a raid suspension. Habitually breaking this rule results in a guild disbanding.
-No guild is allowed to aid another during the initial 24 hour 'uncontested' period. Breaking this rule will result in a raid suspension of the offending guild. Habitually breaking this rule will result in a guild disband.
-Create a functioning 'Raiding' forum where all participating guilds are required to list the date/times of their respective kills, as well as the projected date/times of their respawns.

This is the only way I see everyone having a true equal chance. No one has to sacrifice days of their life sitting in front of a tracking mule mashing a button. No one has to wake up at 4AM on a work-day to have a chance at a boss. The guilds will know they targets for the week ahead of time, and their spawn times. The playing field is absolutely level. Everyone gets their piece of the action, with the chance of getting extra.

Now some might point out that without some sort of qualifier there will be 20 guilds on the rotation in no time, and to start out, you are right. But over time, some guilds will realize it is in their best interest to merge with other guilds to have the numbers/whatever to down the more difficult bosses. Over time, the number of guilds on the rotation will mitigate themselves down to a handful and each guild will be getting multiple targets a week. With the release of Velious that number of targets will more than double.

This is nothing that hasn't been suggested and shot down before on the basis of some's personal feelings about 'competition.' That 'some' are a tiny minority of the server, that are available for the better part of every day to log on at the drop of a hat. The minority of players that applies to are being catered to by the variance, while the vast majority of players it does not apply to are left in the cold when it comes to their classic everquest experience. Rotations work. If Rallos Zek( and many others ) can have have a functioning rotation, that finds the majority of raiders on the server happy, than p99 can do the same.

[Aaryonar]

Originally Posted by kenzar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

An equal chance does not necessarily equate to equality

Why does anybody on this server deserve more than a chance?

Equal Chance = Level Playing Field
Equality = A myth, and not classic

[kenzar]

Originally Posted by Aaryonar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why does anybody on this server deserve more than a chance?

That is all my suggested methods provide. An equal chance (24hrs) on targets in a rotation. Have you spent weeks of your life mashing track for a chance at a mob? I have, its not fun, its not classic. It burns people out, makes them resent people in their own guild and the game. 0 variance is the only thing that makes sense because it puts everyone on a level playing field from the start, everything past that is what they wish to put into it.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

well said sir. are variances perfect? absolutely not, and i think the staff has admitted this by making changes to the variance and how it works. and we'll continue to make tweaks as the staff feels is needed to ensure a successful and competitive future for the server.

Here is what I don't get, Sirken. I think you are intelligent and sincere. Which is why I really don't understand how you can make the statements you do about variance. It's almost like we play on different servers. You say that variance prevents the top guild from dominating, yet there have been huge blocks of time where a single guild would get borderline clean sweeps (TR for several months after Kunark came out, TMO for ~10 months around last summer) and even when there was 'competition' there were exactly two guilds involved: TR/TMO and now TMO/FE. You say that lack of variance would allow a guild to manipulate the boss mobs to repop at inconvenient times, yet all the raid targets are killed within an hour of spawning, regardless of time. You say that you want competition, yet you have gotten Lord of the Flies. Have you read RnF lately? There is some serious hate there. People are flaming and trolling and spying and trying to dig up other people's RL information so they can harass them there. This is Chest's point: Why can you not see that some of us just don't want to be a part of that, and that it has nothing to do with 'competition' ? And why as staff are you encouraging this kind of environment?

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is what I don't get, Sirken. I think you are intelligent and sincere. Which is why I really don't understand how you can make the statements you do about variance. It's almost like we play on different servers. You say that variance prevents the top guild from dominating, yet there have been huge blocks of time where a single guild would get borderline clean sweeps (TR for several months after Kunark came out, TMO for ~10 months around last summer) and even when there was 'competition' there were exactly two guilds involved: TR/TMO and now TMO/FE. You say that lack of variance would allow a guild to manipulate the boss mobs to repop at inconvenient times, yet all the raid targets are killed within an hour of spawning, regardless of time. You say that you want competition, yet you have gotten Lord of the Flies. Have you read RnF lately? There is some serious hate there. People are flaming and trolling and spying and trying to dig up other people's RL information so they can harass them there. This is Chest's point: Why can you not see that some of us just don't want to be a part of that, and that it has nothing to do with 'competition' ?

try seconds in some cases, minutes if it's a long pull, hours only if it's VP training or Fear shenanigans