EXP IS SO SLOW!

[fastboy21]

The Group Exp Penalties change is a classic example (pun intended) of something that was in classic and was not a good idea. Eventually, in SoV, the devs changed this because they got saw the problem of groups rejecting certain classes because of it.

My comments:
1. This is a classic server, so in the pure mission of the server it should be included.
2. This change will make the server "more classic".
3. This change will disgruntle many players for a variety of reasons.

Over all, I think this change does more bad than good to the community. While it certainly makes the server more classic, it is going to have a greater net negative impact on groups and individuals.

I also think, from a fair-play point of view, that it is not the most fair decision to spring this major change on the community without discussing it first.

I was very impressed with the community discussion regarding keeping/removing the global channel. The dev team here, in that case, actually did a better job of communicating, discussing, and explaining the change than any PAID mmo I have ever played. I recall thinking, even though I was on the side of the debate to keep OOC, that I understood and felt included in the dialog well before the change took place and, therefore, felt fine about the change when it finally came.

With this change, I feel like it was just thrown at the community. It's your play pen so I respect the right for you to change what you like whenever you like, but it would have been a good thing for the community for you to have handled it more like the global chat channel example imo.

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On top of all that, I also think you have gotten the formula wrong/coded it wrong. I was grped for 3 hours last night in MM at gy, and got 4 blues during that whole time. I recall 1 hour per blue only going from 59 to 60. We were pulling and killing the entire time. There is something wrong here. Was this tested well enough and long enough? Did the GM who made the changes sufficiently tap the community as a resource to make sure the new calculation was accurate?

It feels like this was a quick shot from the hip...and its wayyyy too important to implement that way.

[Bumamgar]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On top of all that, I also think you have gotten the formula wrong/coded it wrong. I was grped for 3 hours last night in MM at gy, and got 4 blues during that whole time. I recall 1 hour per blue only going from 59 to 60. We were pulling and killing the entire time. There is something wrong here. Was this tested well enough and long enough? Did the GM who made the changes sufficiently tap the community as a resource to make sure the new calculation was accurate?

What class/race/level were each of the members of your party? What con/level were the mobs you were killing?

The base XP formula was not changed. A 20th level mob still gives the same XP it used to give. A Human Cleric still needs the same amount of XP to ding each level as they used to.

[Harmonicdeth]

Being a Half Elf bard with a 40% negative XP run, it is hard for me to find groups. I do remember it being hell to level in old EQ live from back in 1999-2000. But, I don't remember it being this hard to level.

Purists will bitch, because they themselves have leveled up and gotten where they are this way. Part timers like me will bitch because its impossible to level appropriately.

I just want to enjoy places I used to, but I don't know honestly if I have the time to enjoy them if I level this slow.

I might just make a Warrior and be done with the penalty.

Flame me all you want, that's just how I feel, and I have even noticed that with people I have grouped with recently.

[Ihealyou]

I played classic for several years, and I never had a max level character. I started around velious, and was level 59 by the time the cap was 75. Granted, I probably played a lot less back then, and I was definitely a huge noob, but I always remembered leveling being a slow process. Having a main in the 30s or 40s didn't mean that you started playing 3 weeks ago.

I agree that leveling sucks now, but it feels a lot closer to how I remember it. Once people chill out, I'm sure SKs, pallies and bards will be fine getting groups. They all bring a lot to the table that a warrior or whatever cannot. I'd rather play with good players than a bunch of halfing warriors and rogues anyways.

The game may seem like a race to 50, but its really about the journey. I don't raid, so I barely play my 50 cleric anymore. Even the people who raid spend a lot of their time sitting around waiting for respawns. Its a lot more fun to kill crocs in oasis than it is to sit in EC showing off how leet your level 50 is.

[Smuuglie]

Originally Posted by Ihealyou [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its a lot more fun to kill crocs in oasis than it is to sit in EC showing off how leet your level 50 is.

Thats what YOUUUUU think D:

[Danth]

I play hybrid characters exclusively. I support this change and wish it had been present since the server opened. It's hell trying to stay the same level as my friends with the broken system; at least now that won't be an issue. Leveling my Paladin to 50 was a constant headache, trying to stay roughly even with the wife's character. To heck with that, it wasn't fun, wasn't sensible, and wasn't classic. No advantages, just nuisance.

If it was up to me, I wouldn't have had those class/race penalties at all--they're dumb (I'd keep the good, throw away the bad)--but if they're going to be present, do 'em right. That's what the fixed experience setup does. The prior system was half-assed, neither logical *nor* classic, and as such--all bad, the worst of both sides.

Some groups won't take penalized races/classes due to that. Once again, a dumb feature of EQ, but it's classic. Still beats having to play half again as much as my friends to keep up (or worse, watching them have to kill themselves repeatedly).

Unfortunately this change, which should have been working from the start or very early on, is only being applied after ~9 months. I have mixed feelings on that, but I suppose 'better late than never'.

Danth

[Amra]

Originally Posted by Harmonicdeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Purists will bitch, because they themselves have leveled up and gotten where they are this way. Part timers like me will bitch because its impossible to level appropriately.

I think this quote is funny cause all the "Purists" Already have a 50 or multiple 50s cause this server has been out almost a year with the xp the other way. So why change it so late? I just started here as well and I don't remember exactly how fast I leveled the first time around. It does feel slower, but why punish the new player population when there are already so many max levels on the server?

[Danth]

Keep in mind that some of those 'purists' who started in October and have a character at 50 (such as myself) leveled *slower* than they would have otherwise, due to experience not being correctly averaged out.

EQ isn't well-suited for rushing to the top anyway. If you want that, you're playing the wrong game. There's practically nothing fun to do at 50 (unless you like sitting on Nagafen's spawn point for 12 hour shifts), hence why some of those guys have multiple 50's to begin with. Don't expect Kunark to fix that issue, either, because it won't.

Low levels, for some strange reason, always did seem extremely slow on P99; certainly I could never do 1-7/8 on P99 at the same rate my many low-leveled character did during the 'classic' era. I'm unsure why that's the case exactly. The general rule since the server opened has been, 'don't kill blues at low levels if you can help it.'

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"My second point is, what's the point in having xp penalties on certain race and class if said class/race get more xp than the other, ultimately reversing the penalty."

Sony did that because it was found, during EQ's beta, that players of penalzied classes couldn't keep up with their friends otherwise. The idea--rubbish, as we all know--was that the shared penalty was still appropriate since the penalized classes added more to their groups. Maybe it even would have made sense if said penalized classes didn't include some of the weakest classes in the game (hello, rangers!). That's EQ for you though. That being said, I'll take a dumb but classic feature over the previous implementation, which was both dumb and NOT classic.

Danth

[Harmonicdeth]

Originally Posted by Amra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think this quote is funny cause all the "Purists" Already have a 50 or multiple 50s cause this server has been out almost a year with the xp the other way. So why change it so late? I just started here as well and I don't remember exactly how fast I leveled the first time around. It does feel slower, but why punish the new player population when there are already so many max levels on the server?

Wait what?

Maybe I am drunk or something, but it seems your contradict yourself.

[Nlaar]

I am quite disappointed by all of this.

As a level 35 SK life is difficult enough as it is.

No transportation spells. No walking speed spells (SoW, Selos). A 40% exp penalty. Not great dps. No Gate spell. No bind spell.

Above all else: constantly dying while the casters in the group safely gate out and then I get to walk X zones to get back to my corpse and regroup.

Despite all of this, despite dealing with lazy casters all the time, I was still ready and willing to go through all the BS because I simply love playing a tank class. Many of you have seen me around lately (just started playing ~3 weeks ago or so) and I like to think that my participation in groups has had a positive effect on everyone. I try to keep everyone in the group happy and am always on the "reorganizing" end of a group when replacements are needed. In other words: I also love to group.

And.... this is the thanks I get for playing a class that isn't even unbalanced. I had a 35 Mage almost not join the group as a replacement last night because of me. Given the tone of this thread, I am expecting several more rejections. Great.

According to the links posted, all of this was changed (hybrids no longer soaked up exp) mid Vel. because the devs realized that they had made an oversight. Can we learn from history and make the changes right now?