Drama

[Wrei]

Originally Posted by President [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I really don't see how letting someone zone while they are attempting to clear a camp TWICE is shady. It seems pretty clear also he did not let the group know of his near-exploit strategy to take the camp either. The fact the group let him zone twice before deciding he obviously couldn't hold the camp properly is pretty nice of them, and It was even nicer of them that they let him roll on the sword which he lost.

But that's pretty cool of you Mr. Enchanter to not believe that a full group was doing a CR and taking a mith 2h for your alt/sale over someones main.

I agree the decent thing to do is to give up the camp to a full group, specially if they say they were doing a CR. Would the group have done the same though if the situation had been the other way around? Camp checks are not always infallible, this is why you win/lose camps. It's all speculation but my money is on the group to tell the enchanter to get bent if the situation had been reversed. Can you imagine? Oh charm broke wrong time, I was doing CR but it was my camp....

There's no "decency" in camping anything. If you get a camp legitimately (of witnessing a group/person fail at retaining a camp), then you should keep it. Making sketchy deals to sketchy people then making a sketchy post is not the way to go.

[President]

Originally Posted by Wrei [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree the decent thing to do is to give up the camp to a full group, specially if they say they were doing a CR. Would the group have done the same though if the situation had been the other way around? Camp checks are not always infallible, this is why you win/lose camps. It's all speculation but my money is on the group to tell the enchanter to get bent if the situation had been reversed. Can you imagine? Oh charm broke wrong time, I was doing CR but it was my camp....

Very true also. I highly doubt I would ever give a camp back to an enchanter if I had someone in the group that actually needed what was dropping in that camp. I can't tell you how many times, especially before the camping rules went in, that I got a group together to go down to camp FBSS/YAK only to find an enchanter clearing the whole downstairs who was AFK during my three camp check's. Although infuriating, I never attempted to fight the enchanter for the spot, even when he wasn't "at the camp" but at one of his other 3 rotating spots.

[Hasbinbad]

Hi Wrei!

[Wrei]

Hi, Hasbinbad!

[Deeps]

if ks'n and camp stealing were legal, it would also give the guild leaders more power to police themselves, as well as, give the guides and gm's less stuff to worry about. People who are pricks would get blacklisted and booted out of guilds. 1 guy wouldnt be able to camp frenzy for days. It's prolly been discussed before, I'm sure it has. I wish they would at least put up a poll so we could get an idea about what people think. I'm not a genius though, so maybe im wrong, lol.

[Daldolma]

I play a rogue main (with no alts) and have had nothing but good experiences with Divinity, so let's push aside the matter of bias from the get-go.

But I think it's clear that the OP was in the right here, at least up until the loot was dropped. The guy comes to an empty camp with a full spawn, clears the PH, and then is informed that a wiped group is making their way back to that camp. He concedes the camp out of pure goodwill, as it is rightfully his, asking only for the right to the named (or named PH) which he just spent ~20 minutes (assumption) clearing the camp for. The group agrees, with the exception of one member making unreasonable demands (that he walk away from a camp that is his, reaping absolutely zero benefit from the fact that he just cleared the worthless PH, potentially priming the named pop for the group).

The enchanter proceeds to begin clearing the respawns in the way that *every* enchanter does. I find it exceptionally hard to believe that among a full group of players from a guild as respected and high-end as Divinity, not a one understood what the enchanter was doing. That leaves the alternative, which is the reality of the situation: the group knew what was going on, waited for the enchanter to zone, then stole the mob that they had previously agreed to allow the enchanter to kill.

As some posters have gone to great lengths to point out, nothing the group did was against the rules. There is no debate over that -- this was not a rules infringement on the part of either party. That's why it's in RnF instead of a petition. From my view, the enchanter was understanding and conciliatory, while the group -- frustrated by the loss of their camp -- completely ignored any form of common courtesy, in effect taking advantage of a guy that was not looking for a fight. I know that in the world of EQ, the solo'er is big business, and the full group looking for experience is the trampled proletariat, but that wasn't the case in this scenario.

Once the loot dropped, though, the group went above and beyond, IMO. To allow the enchanter to roll essentially evens things up, in my opinion. The fact that the sword was eventually relinquished to the enchanter a) proves to me that the Divinity members, though understandably caught up in frustration and loot-lust at the moment, eventually absolutely, 100% did what was right and made up for any wrong-doing, and b) knew that what they had done was wrong, at least to a certain extent. I'm sorry, but that's a valuable sword. You do not hand that over if you fail to recognize the legitimacy of the gripe.

So basically, I think this thread is a waste. The enchanter did what was right. Divinity eventually did what was right. The correct parties had the correct items (enchanter - sword, Divinity - the camp), and there's really not much more to argue about.

[President]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The enchanter proceeds to begin clearing the respawns in the way that *every* enchanter does. I find it exceptionally hard to believe that among a full group of players from a guild as respected and high-end as Divinity, not a one understood what the enchanter was doing. That leaves the alternative, which is the reality of the situation: the group knew what was going on, waited for the enchanter to zone, then stole the mob that they had previously agreed to allow the enchanter to kill.

I've been playing for some time, on here and classic, and had no enchanter tell me (even my room mate who plays a level 50 enc) that he has to zone to be able to clear a camp. So, I don't find it impossible that no person in that group understood that was his "strategy." I also don't believe that is how every enchanter fights that camp either, as I know for sure my room mate has held it without having to dash to the zone line.

So basically, I think this thread is a waste. The enchanter did what was right. Divinity eventually did what was right. The correct parties had the correct items (enchanter - sword, Divinity - the camp), and there's really not much more to argue about.

I agree on the rest of your assessment, however it does show a lameness of the enchanter.

"Hey, I understand you guys were going to pick up two new members of your group and had a mini wipe, but since I didn't call CC and ran down to the camp and started clearing it, I am going to take the weapon you have been camping for X amount of time even though one of your players needs it."

[Stepy]

I don't think it matters if that is the 'Strat' of the day for Enchanters if he has to leave and run back to the camp then it's abandoned. I'm sure others can try a strat. of killing one of the mobs, zoning and running back till it successfully picked off all mobs. If camp is free and clear then fine they can use some strat all day. Clearly he could tell if there was a wipe and the group was considerate to let him have a shot but you can't expect them to wait all day for the Charm - Zone - Return - Med tactic to work.
What would some of you do if you ran in and saw a full spawn or one mob missing and thought, hmmm a chanter must have been using that good ol chanter strat? What if you happened upon the same zone and no one was there and you finished it off and then some chanter walks up and says i was using my strat of the day to clear camp it is mine?

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by Stepy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What would some of you do if you ran in and saw a full spawn or one mob missing and thought, hmmm a chanter must have been using that good ol chanter strat? What if you happened upon the same zone and no one was there and you finished it off and then some chanter walks up and says i was using my strat of the day to clear camp it is mine?

The problem is that that's not what happened. This group didn't happen upon the camp as the guy was out of zone. They knew what he was doing because he told them, and according to him, he even told them he was going to zone. They agreed to let him have the one mob. Then when he zoned, they killed it. It was wrong. But they gave him the sword, which made everything alright as far as I'm concerned.

And I hadn't seen Shewz's most recent post when I made mine, but it confirms my previous belief that a) the group knew what they were doing, b) he was bound in the King safe hall, and c) the entire "zoning" ordeal likely took less than a full 60 seconds, which renders any kind of defense of the King kill moot. It's one thing if the guy's not there, the group is standing around, and they sake "fuck this, he's not here -- let's take it." But it takes, what? 45 seconds to run to portal, load to Innothule, then gate? They had to be waiting on it, and they had to have engaged the SECOND he zoned out. It's low, it just is.

But again, since they returned the sword, I have a hard time seriously holding this against Divinity. Everyone makes mistakes -- owning the mistake and making reparations is generally above and beyond the call, given the fact that this particular mistake broke no server rule and threatened nobody with any sort of punishment. IMO, chalk another one up for Divinity's generally exceptional reputation, and grats Shewz on the Mithril 2-hander. Not much more to it than that.

[President]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And I hadn't seen Shewz's most recent post when I made mine, but it confirms my previous belief that a) the group knew what they were doing, b) he was bound in the King safe hall, and c) the entire "zoning" ordeal likely took less than a full 60 seconds, which renders any kind of defense of the King kill moot. It's one thing if the guy's not there, the group is standing around, and they sake "fuck this, he's not here -- let's take it." But it takes, what? 45 seconds to run to portal, load to Innothule, then gate? They had to be waiting on it, and they had to have engaged the SECOND he zoned out. It's low, it just is.

As low as it is to take a mob when someone zones for 60 seconds, it's just as low to take a mob from a group who was getting replacements and had been camping the mob for X amount of time with players that needed it.