My proposal for Raiding guilds and GMs of P1999

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Really? I think, like you, everyone knows that I'm fair and tend to speak my mind. That being said, some of what you said may be true, but I hope you realize how big of a jackass you sound in this post. Seriously, get off the high horse and join us "recent 50s" (/boggle) in a civil discussion.

As far as the topic at hand - I think raiding on this server can be compared to economics in regard to Adam Smith's concept of an invisible hand. Eventually it will work itself out. If people get sick of sitting on mobs, then they'll eventually stop. If not, they should be more than welcome to continue using whatever tactic they please assuming it abides by basic server rules (PnP). There is no need to regulate it... it will eventually fix itself.

Oh also - Phallax. I would address your posts in this thread, but I don't think I need to tell everyone what they already know.

You just called me a jackass and told me to get off my high horse but somehow I'm the one being uncivil because I disagree? I don't like your guild's tactics and strategies. I don't like Nizzarr's ideas to fix the problems that he, by his own admission, helped to cause.

We don't need any fancy proposals and complicated rules to fix this situation. I can't express this any more clearly:

If Dark Ascension stops camping, the camping will stop.

You created the problem and now you're complaining and pretending to offer solutions. Really?

[Loke]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You just called me a jackass and told me to get off my high horse but somehow I'm the one being uncivil because I disagree? I don't like your guild's tactics and strategies. I don't like Nizzarr's ideas to fix the problems that he, by his own admission, helped to cause.

We don't need any fancy proposals and complicated rules to fix this situation. I can't express this any more clearly:

If Dark Ascension stops camping, the camping will stop.

You created the problem and now you're complaining and pretending to offer solutions. Really?

I'm not going to get this sent to R&F, so I'll keep this brief. If you noticed by my post, I disagree with the idea of a rotation also. It's not that you disagreed - it was that you used the issue to take a dig at DA - which isn't what this thread is for. This is not the venue to express that you apparently think everyone in DA is an inexperienced and sub-par player. That was why I said you sounded like a jackass.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think raiding on this server can be compared to economics in regard to Adam Smith's concept of an invisible hand. Eventually it will work itself out. If people get sick of sitting on mobs, then they'll eventually stop. If not, they should be more than welcome to continue using whatever tactic they please assuming it abides by basic server rules (PnP). There is no need to regulate it... it will eventually fix itself.

Just like Adam Smith, you underestimate the power of greed. If people are allowed to perma-camp the best loot in the game in a Zerg guild, they will do it. You say "No need to regulate it" and yet it is already regulated... Its just a question of how to regulate it.

I already voted either for A) FFA (my favorite) or B) One guild kills or fails at killing a named ----> Next in-line (or random) has a go at it.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not an officer and I don't speak for my guild

I know page one was a long time ago, so maybe it's time to restate that. Xzerion is the leader of Inglourious Basterds. He speaks for us. He expressed hopeful optimism in this thread.

All of my posts have been focused on pointing out the simple solution to Nizzarr's imaginary problem, with the exception of the last few pages which are obviously just silly.

[Nizzarr]

We all know IB wont be for a rotation. Please keep the guild drama out of this thread.

I care for the server's health. The raiding scene is important and we need to keep it clean and as drama free as possible. I care about the 600 other poeple that are gonna get close to 50 and wants to raid in the near future. I proposed these rules so no one, in the near future, has to deal with the retardedness that is the current raiding rules.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by Nizzarr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We all know IB wont be for a rotation. Please keep the guild drama out of this thread.

I care for the server's health. The raiding scene is important and we need to keep it clean and as drama free as possible. I care about the 600 other poeple that are gonna get close to 50 and wants to raid in the near future. I proposed these rules so no one, in the near future, has to deal with the retardedness that is the current raiding rules.

You seem to have an idea that 600 people can somehow raid four bosses but the numbers don't work for me. You truly think that a lottery for bosses and logging in once every two or three weeks to kill the boss your guild won makes the server more "healthy"? You're also proposing to throw Plane of Sky immediately into rotation when it hasn't even been released.

This all seems like an excellent idea for how to organize a business, but it doesn't sound anything like my idea of a competitive hobby. Committed participation in a highly structured environment usually comes with a pay check.

When I was a noob in EQ looking up to great players like Nizzarr in <Ruin>, my guilds got our asses kicked. We practiced things like mobilizing until we got better. When we finally got some kills, there was a great sense of pride and accomplishment. I would have stopped playing this game after a month or two if the end game was a bunch of meetings and calendars and schedules and endless rules.

[astarothel]

If I had to choose something for rotations, it would definitely be more a type of suicide kings, rather than just /random. Why? Because random fucks some people while others have a horseshoe permanently entrenched up their ass.

Using something like suicide kings would let guilds choose to pass on the mob or take the suicide.

Raid Rotation Suicide Kings

/random for initial guild placement on the suicide list. Let's say it ends up something like this

1. DA
2. Divinity
3. IB
4. Remedy

Guilds are individually responsible for their own tracking and mob intel.
"No one told us it was up" is not an excuse.

Let's say IB, Divinity, and DA all have trackers in SolB, or intel on a Naggy pop. DA as first on the list has 5 minutes to decide if they will mobilize for Naggy, or pass.

If they mobilize, they have an hour to kill the target (if something has trash like a full zone pop in a plane this might have to be longer, also I'd include attempts that start before the end of that hour to wrap up). Choosing to mobilize for that target will drop them one spot beneath the lowest of the three that were present/aware of the spawn -- they have suicided to the bottom of those people on the list.

If the first guild passes it goes to the next guild down the list who has 5 minutes to decide if they will suicide, and so on.

If it gets to the bottom, obviously the guild at the bottom of those involved can take the raid target and they have nowhere to go. I seriously doubt that it makes it that far down the list though with so few targets in classic.


===

Do I like rotations? No, I think they're pants on head retarded. If I am going to see one implemented though I would want to see one that emphasized tracking and intel rather than OMG OUR TURN EVEN THO WE DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS UP.

Addendum: mobilization is important. If you can't get that shit down in an hour, or you opt to take the raid target but can't get enough people, sucks to be you -- you just suicided for no reason.

[Supreme]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I had to choose something for rotations, it would definitely be more a type of suicide kings, rather than just /random. Why? Because random fucks some people while others have a horseshoe permanently entrenched up their ass.

Using something like suicide kings would let guilds choose to pass on the mob or take the suicide.

Raid Rotation Suicide Kings

/random for initial guild placement on the suicide list. Let's say it ends up something like this

1. DA
2. Divinity
3. IB
4. Remedy

Guilds are individually responsible for their own tracking and mob intel.
"No one told us it was up" is not an excuse.

Let's say IB, Divinity, and DA all have trackers in SolB, or intel on a Naggy pop. DA as first on the list has 5 minutes to decide if they will mobilize for Naggy, or pass.

If they mobilize, they have an hour to kill the target (if something has trash like a full zone pop in a plane this might have to be longer, also I'd include attempts that start before the end of that hour to wrap up). Choosing to mobilize for that target will drop them one spot beneath the lowest of the three that were present/aware of the spawn -- they have suicided to the bottom of those people on the list.

If the first guild passes it goes to the next guild down the list who has 5 minutes to decide if they will suicide, and so on.

If it gets to the bottom, obviously the guild at the bottom of those involved can take the raid target and they have nowhere to go. I seriously doubt that it makes it that far down the list though with so few targets in classic.


===

Do I like rotations? No, I think they're pants on head retarded. If I am going to see one implemented though I would want to see one that emphasized tracking and intel rather than OMG OUR TURN EVEN THO WE DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS UP.

Addendum: mobilization is important. If you can't get that shit down in an hour, or you opt to take the raid target but can't get enough people, sucks to be you -- you just suicided for no reason.

Again..just because there are only 4 guilds WILLING to permacamp current raid targets does not mean that there are only 4 guilds CAPABLE of doing the content....If you add 4 more guilds into the mix you have 8 guilds trying to compete for less than 8 raid targets...

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again..just because there are only 4 guilds WILLING to permacamp current raid targets does not mean that there are only 4 guilds CAPABLE of doing the content....If you add 4 more guilds into the mix you have 8 guilds trying to compete for less than 8 raid targets...

Fun fact: It isn't camping in this situation, it is awareness and mobilization. In this method a tracker has just as much claim as however many are camping it. The example used four guilds, simply because that is the situation at the moment. More can be added to the list easily.

If you don't have a tracker or the wherewithall to know when a target is up, I don't see how you should be able to have a claim on it.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I had to choose something for rotations, it would definitely be more a type of suicide kings, rather than just /random. Why? Because random fucks some people while others have a horseshoe permanently entrenched up their ass.

Using something like suicide kings would let guilds choose to pass on the mob or take the suicide.

Raid Rotation Suicide Kings

/random for initial guild placement on the suicide list. Let's say it ends up something like this

1. DA
2. Divinity
3. IB
4. Remedy

Guilds are individually responsible for their own tracking and mob intel.
"No one told us it was up" is not an excuse.

Let's say IB, Divinity, and DA all have trackers in SolB, or intel on a Naggy pop. DA as first on the list has 5 minutes to decide if they will mobilize for Naggy, or pass.

If they mobilize, they have an hour to kill the target (if something has trash like a full zone pop in a plane this might have to be longer, also I'd include attempts that start before the end of that hour to wrap up). Choosing to mobilize for that target will drop them one spot beneath the lowest of the three that were present/aware of the spawn -- they have suicided to the bottom of those people on the list.

If the first guild passes it goes to the next guild down the list who has 5 minutes to decide if they will suicide, and so on.

If it gets to the bottom, obviously the guild at the bottom of those involved can take the raid target and they have nowhere to go. I seriously doubt that it makes it that far down the list though with so few targets in classic.


===

Do I like rotations? No, I think they're pants on head retarded. If I am going to see one implemented though I would want to see one that emphasized tracking and intel rather than OMG OUR TURN EVEN THO WE DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS UP.

Addendum: mobilization is important. If you can't get that shit down in an hour, or you opt to take the raid target but can't get enough people, sucks to be you -- you just suicided for no reason.

Necrod this idea because I do think it holds some interesting possibilities. The nice thing about this is that it is open to almost any encounter. I think the timers and whatnot could use some tweaking. However, it needs special cases and as of right now would have to have some sort of workable solution for Plane of Sky when it comes out.

I think we can come up with some good ideas, here. I know some other solutions are in the works and at least this thread sparked the conversation.