My proposal for Raiding guilds and GMs of P1999

[Toony]

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but but..rotation isn't classic!

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Actually rotations were classic, what isn't classic is making them mandated and or governed by the server admins. As long as the respective guilds are the ones responsible for making and adhering to the agreements then its probably a good idea.

I say probably as I don't raid here yet, so I cant rule out any whack jobiness that exists here that didn't on live.

[rioisk]

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I 100% support (both development and financially) the creation of a second server to give players the option between "Hardcore" and "Carebear (or Normal)".

This is funny. I want to see IB continue to call themselves the "best" on the server when there's no one there to even compete with....in fact it'll probably just be them on the server. Sounds like an empty world for them.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by rioisk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is funny. I want to see IB continue to call themselves the "best" on the server when there's no one there to even compete with....in fact it'll probably just be them on the server. Sounds like an empty world for them.

Just them. And the 600+ other people that contentedly play.
I doubt DA would leave, nor would Remedy, and probably not Divinity.

So it'd be pretty much just you leaving. Who are you again?

[sidgb]

Make all raids on bosses PuG raids run by the GM's.

And if the raid wipes the GM will DT the mob and give the loot to a noob killing orcs in EC..

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[Alawen Everywhere]

I think everyone knows by now that I'm a pretty straight shooter, so here's exactly what I think.

I think we have been hearing about the "new sheriff" in town for several weeks. We've heard a lot of trash talk from a guild that recruited a huge zerg of anyone level 46 or over that has never killed more than 50% of bosses in a given cycle, despite turning the raid scene into the big sit. We've seen and taken screen shots of a DA officer training our raids. We've had DA leadership actively lie to a GM in order to receive an additional attempt.

If this proposal had come two or three weeks ago, there would still be many issues with it. I'm not an officer and I don't speak for my guild, but I don't expect many of us to welcome this proposal at all now.

From my perspective, I don't see a solid core to DA. I see a huge number of officers (10? 12? how many officers do you guys have?) trying to hold together a guild full of recent 50s with the highest turnover rate I've ever seen in an MMO guild. This proposal looks completely disingenuous to me. I think there is a rising dissent within DA from members who want to camp items from non-raid targets that they are missing, build some wealth on the server, develop alts and just have a good time. I think this negotiation comes from a position of increasing weakness.

Before DA, IB was like a conventional raid guild. We'd have our small tracking team (like me!) watching for raid targets while everyone did their thing, whether online or offline. When something popped, we'd let each other know, assemble and mobilize. We were good at it and many guilds discovered that they weren't as fast as we are. DA's leadership decided to eliminate mobilization from the equation with camping. Now we have a DA officer proposing rotation because they're tired of camping.

Here's the bottom line: from where I sit, it seems like DA thought a couple weeks of camping would destroy IB. Instead, it's destroying DA. It looks like a couple more weeks of camping 24/7 will return the server to raid strategies involving tracking and mobilization.

Just like classic EQ.

[Phallax]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think everyone knows by now that I'm a pretty straight shooter, so here's exactly what I think.

I think we have been hearing about the "new sheriff" in town for several weeks. We've heard a lot of trash talk from a guild that recruited a huge zerg of anyone level 46 or over that has never killed more than 50% of bosses in a given cycle, despite turning the raid scene into the big sit. We've seen and taken screen shots of a DA officer training our raids. We've had DA leadership actively lie to a GM in order to receive an additional attempt.

If this proposal had come two or three weeks ago, there would still be many issues with it. I'm not an officer and I don't speak for my guild, but I don't expect many of us to welcome this proposal at all now.

From my perspective, I don't see a solid core to DA. I see a huge number of officers (10? 12? how many officers do you guys have?) trying to hold together a guild full of recent 50s with the highest turnover rate I've ever seen in an MMO guild. This proposal looks completely disingenuous to me. I think there is a rising dissent within DA from members who want to camp items from non-raid targets that they are missing, build some wealth on the server, develop alts and just have a good time. I think this negotiation comes from a position of increasing weakness.

Before DA, IB was like a conventional raid guild. We'd have our small tracking team (like me!) watching for raid targets while everyone did their thing, whether online or offline. When something popped, we'd let each other know, assemble and mobilize. We were good at it and many guilds discovered that they weren't as fast as we are. DA's leadership decided to eliminate mobilization from the equation with camping. Now we have a DA officer proposing rotation because they're tired of camping.

Here's the bottom line: from where I sit, it seems like DA thought a couple weeks of camping would destroy IB. Instead, it's destroying DA. It looks like a couple more weeks of camping 24/7 will return the server to raid strategies involving tracking and mobilization.

Just like classic EQ.

^ this. DA's intention WAS to "try" and destroy IB. Believe me I saw the guild text and "lawl" statements and how they think theyre playing chess, its humorous at best. DA is weakening, they were getting weak the first week of it but kept trying to shrug it off by claiming how IB was getting weak.

A new system is needed but I think it needs to be thoroughly ironed out in a good discussion thread such as this over weeks of time, not 1 night sitting in mumble/TS shootin random shit all night.

It needs input from the enitre server, not just a handful of officers from different guilds.

Nizzarr out of the very few DA I still have respect for, you are 1 and I think this proposal is a good base to start the new rules, that are needed, off of.

[guineapig]

Originally Posted by Phallax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^ this. DA's intention WAS to "try" and destroy IB. Believe me I saw the guild text and "lawl" statements and how they think theyre playing chess, its humorous at best. DA is weakening, they were getting weak the first week of it but kept trying to shrug it off by claiming how IB was getting weak.

That's a whole lot of weakening...

[Ektar]

Originally Posted by Nizzarr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe if IB is kept out of this thread, it could be kept civil.

There wont be no FFA on this server. GMs dont want to deal with it, no one wants to deal with all the drama either.

For all of you who thinks that thread shouldnt exist, please take a look at the current raiding situation and think again.

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's the bottom line: from where I sit, it seems like DA thought a couple weeks of camping would destroy IB. Instead, it's destroying DA. It looks like a couple more weeks of camping 24/7 will return the server to raid strategies involving tracking and mobilization.

Just like classic EQ.

btw.

http://project1999.org/forums/showth...light=variance

My favorite line is "If you want to kill shit, then be ready when it matters."


Mythoxxus 2.0, please stop using colorful words to sway the server against IB. 6 months ago you thought the variance was the greatest idea. Now you, leading a new guild, have new interests that happen to coincide with the best interests of the guild that conflict directly with your old interests.

And I'm very sorry that anyone who disagrees with you is "not civil." You are missing the point of why this fiasco exists entirely. Or perhaps you're not and just trying to avoid it, which would actually be my guess. However, discussion of this belongs in a guild meeting; not here.

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what about two servers..one for the FFA people and one that has rotations.

I'm sure Rogean would give more specific reasons as to why he would not patch 2 servers every week as the server hardware admin.

My reasoning should be easy to understand. We will not split the population up for anything other than having too many players on one server. We will not listen to 2 different sets of petitioners and deal with multiple databases just so you can have a rotation. It is already an enormous amount of work.

Originally Posted by Nizzarr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The times are dire! We need changes on the raiding scene of the p1999, as soon as possible.

I'm completely disheartened with the state of raiding as well. A lot of the players were not here when the current rules were made and/or have no idea why they exist.

No one wants to "camp the dragon", or "turn in a token for their badass weekly chance of rotating a simulated dragon". I don't want this for you, and I don't even play.

WE DO NOT CARE if you get loot. WE DO NOT CARE about guilds. We are here to make classic Everquest. Beyond that, you guys should be able to make your own rules when it comes to raid content. Too bad you can't.

We started out with no enforced raiding rules. Disaster. Guilds training each other, guilds camping out on top of raid npcs days in advance. Then we went to a rotation. That worked fine until a 3rd guild entered the mix, then it became terrible as well.

Then, there was weeks of deliberation about a new system. It was 95% bickering, 5% suggestions. We made the best system out of the best suggestions, and went with it.

So we went with spawn variance + raiding rules. As much as you guys don't like it, this keeps work off of us. We don't want to hear your problems. We want to develop content.. and you should want us developing content if you're interested in it existing.

I said time and time again to the raiding guilds.. work things out between yourselves. Make your own rules with each other; never call the GMs. If GMs aren't called then we'll never know or care what the fuck you do. Now, this thread exists again, and everyone is unhappy with the raiding rules.

Is it REALLY necessary that we act as divine babysitters? Embarrassing imo.

I'd suggest making more proposals, and less accusations. This is turning into exactly what happened last time.

[Loke]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think everyone knows by now that I'm a pretty straight shooter, so here's exactly what I think.

I think we have been hearing about the "new sheriff" in town for several weeks. We've heard a lot of trash talk from a guild that recruited a huge zerg of anyone level 46 or over that has never killed more than 50% of bosses in a given cycle, despite turning the raid scene into the big sit. We've seen and taken screen shots of a DA officer training our raids. We've had DA leadership actively lie to a GM in order to receive an additional attempt.

If this proposal had come two or three weeks ago, there would still be many issues with it. I'm not an officer and I don't speak for my guild, but I don't expect many of us to welcome this proposal at all now.

From my perspective, I don't see a solid core to DA. I see a huge number of officers (10? 12? how many officers do you guys have?) trying to hold together a guild full of recent 50s with the highest turnover rate I've ever seen in an MMO guild. This proposal looks completely disingenuous to me. I think there is a rising dissent within DA from members who want to camp items from non-raid targets that they are missing, build some wealth on the server, develop alts and just have a good time. I think this negotiation comes from a position of increasing weakness.

Before DA, IB was like a conventional raid guild. We'd have our small tracking team (like me!) watching for raid targets while everyone did their thing, whether online or offline. When something popped, we'd let each other know, assemble and mobilize. We were good at it and many guilds discovered that they weren't as fast as we are. DA's leadership decided to eliminate mobilization from the equation with camping. Now we have a DA officer proposing rotation because they're tired of camping.

Here's the bottom line: from where I sit, it seems like DA thought a couple weeks of camping would destroy IB. Instead, it's destroying DA. It looks like a couple more weeks of camping 24/7 will return the server to raid strategies involving tracking and mobilization.

Just like classic EQ.

Really? I think, like you, everyone knows that I'm fair and tend to speak my mind. That being said, some of what you said may be true, but I hope you realize how big of a jackass you sound in this post. Seriously, get off the high horse and join us "recent 50s" (/boggle) in a civil discussion.

As far as the topic at hand - I think raiding on this server can be compared to economics in regard to Adam Smith's concept of an invisible hand. Eventually it will work itself out. If people get sick of sitting on mobs, then they'll eventually stop. If not, they should be more than welcome to continue using whatever tactic they please assuming it abides by basic server rules (PnP). There is no need to regulate it... it will eventually fix itself.

Oh also - Phallax. I would address your posts in this thread, but I don't think I need to tell everyone what they already know.