Raiding Question- TMO

[Ungriim]

Also I'm not sure how that statement I made makes me look mad? Just an opinion. What do you feel about a rotation?

[Nizzarr]

didnt read either but hey -- theres a rotation on the red server, hope you join there!

[Eccezan]

Originally Posted by Nizzarr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

didnt read either but hey -- theres a rotation on the red server, hope you join there!

Blue has a rotation too, but its only a half rotation.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Frieza_Prexus]

I know I'm coming into the thread late, but there's a number of questions about TMO's policies that have yet to be fully answered for the original poster.

A lot of how the server operates goes back to its beginning. An examination of its history will show you that there was an extreme environment of competition surrounding the initial power guilds, and there was much recrimination on both sides. Ever since then, the server's environment has been one of intense competition and mistrust. Ever play the Prisoner's Dilemma logic game? P99's raid scene is somewhat akin to that. Neither side will cooperate initially for fear of getting burned, and it's been that way since the beginning. This is unfortunate, and I don't think it's impossible to undo, but it will be extremely difficult. I commend any efforts to improve the server, and I personally know that it seems like you're banging your head against a brick wall at time.

That said, I want to challenge the notion that TMO doesn't want the server to prosper. We benefit from a healthy server the same as anyone else. Just like any other guild, TMO has its share of Alpha Males who vociferously protest the very notion of civility, but those individuals on all sides can be easily identified. TMO has, in the past, contributed in a number of ways including a program of leaving certain spawns up uncontested. Unfortunately, this program has not continued for a number of internal political reasons, and thanks to the soon-to-be-implemented repop schedule, will likely not surface again.

We kill the targets we do because, as Zeelot said, our primary enjoyment in the game is competing for spawns. Fast mobilization and quick kills are extremely fun, and most of us play for that. Until Velious, mobs tend to be fairly easy, so the real reward is in the race.

Also, remember that TMO, as an organization, exists to equip its members. This creates a responsibility in the organization to pursue that goal. Now, the EXTENT to which this goal is pursued can be debated backwards and forwards on what constitutes "good for the server." However, the undeniable truth is that TMO exists primarily for the elimination of raid targets to equip its membership. P99 has a much higher turnover ratio than live servers did, and this means that we'll always have a demand for some items.

TMO does not cockblock random dragons for no reason. The only dragon that is killed in any way as a blocking measure is Trakanon. Trains are legal in VP, and Phara`Dar is the best loot in the game and will always be in high demand due to its scarcity. This is the true impetus for locking down Trak. Keeping VP safe. Many dragons are killed solely for one or two choice items. Silverwing in VP has terrible loot, but an amazing Shaman item, and is thus killed for it.

Regarding rotations, TMO has respected both a Trak and VP rotation in the past. The VP rotation was broken by a rival guild, but was reestablished with a sunset period in the new agreement which TMO did not renew. All Trak rotations were fully followed, to the letter by TMO, but were not continued at TMO's option when the agreed upon sunset date arrived. TMO generally does not agree to rotations because it is not in the guild's interest to do so. It flies against the organization's primary objective. That said, TMO can help achieve its primary objective by encouraging server health. This has become a balancing test to determine which is more beneficial, a rotation or free for all. Currently, TMO feels that a free for all environment is reasonably respectful of the server's health while simultaneously allowing TMO to gear its members. This is currently the optimal solution for TMO when weighing its needs alongside server health. TMO generally agrees to a rotation when the notion has become appealing to the guild's interests.

As a personal aside, I was on a server that ran a rotation throughout Kunark and Velious. At one point we had over 18 guilds on the Venril Sathir rotation. If you check my post history, you can find more details about this. In short, a rotation encouraged guilds to stay smaller and it encouraged a gaming of the system. I maintain that rotations work only when the number of interested parties is low, say 4 or less. To have otherwise would set an artificial barrier against the natural process of guild mergers. The rotation ensured that insufficient supplies were spread amongst a very large swath of the population, and the strongest guilds kept their old spots on Kunark targets deep into Velious simply to pad their guild fund. Rotations are best run as private agreements amongst several guilds. To create a united set of serverwide rules is difficult and nightmarish.

While this server's raiding scene is tumultuous at times, I submit that it seems worse because many of the posters here submit a very distorted view of the subject. Soon more targets will become available as the GMs institute a new system of simulated patch day repops, and I suspect this will alleviate some, but certainly not all, cries of imbalance and unfairness.

As the server currently exists, it is set up to reward the most dedicated players. I fully sympathize with the plight of the more casual among us, but I posit that TMO acts, in an overall sense, in a logical and relatively fair manner.

[heartbrand]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know I'm coming into the thread late, but there's a number of questions about TMO's policies that have yet to be fully answered for the original poster.

A lot of how the server operates goes back to its beginning. An examination of its history will show you that there was an extreme environment of competition surrounding the initial power guilds, and there was much recrimination on both sides. Ever since then, the server's environment has been one of intense competition and mistrust. Ever play the Prisoner's Dilemma logic game? P99's raid scene is somewhat akin to that. Neither side will cooperate initially for fear of getting burned, and it's been that way since the beginning. This is unfortunate, and I don't think it's impossible to undo, but it will be extremely difficult. I commend any efforts to improve the server, and I personally know that it seems like you're banging your head against a brick wall at time.

That said, I want to challenge the notion that TMO doesn't want the server to prosper. We benefit from a healthy server the same as anyone else. Just like any other guild, TMO has its share of Alpha Males who vociferously protest the very notion of civility, but those individuals on all sides can be easily identified. TMO has, in the past, contributed in a number of ways including a program of leaving certain spawns up uncontested. Unfortunately, this program has not continued for a number of internal political reasons, and thanks to the soon-to-be-implemented repop schedule, will likely not surface again.

We kill the targets we do because, as Zeelot said, our primary enjoyment in the game is competing for spawns. Fast mobilization and quick kills are extremely fun, and most of us play for that. Until Velious, mobs tend to be fairly easy, so the real reward is in the race.

Also, remember that TMO, as an organization, exists to equip its members. This creates a responsibility in the organization to pursue that goal. Now, the EXTENT to which this goal is pursued can be debated backwards and forwards on what constitutes "good for the server." However, the undeniable truth is that TMO exists primarily for the elimination of raid targets to equip its membership. P99 has a much higher turnover ratio than live servers did, and this means that we'll always have a demand for some items.

TMO does not cockblock random dragons for no reason. The only dragon that is killed in any way as a blocking measure is Trakanon. Trains are legal in VP, and Phara`Dar is the best loot in the game and will always be in high demand due to its scarcity. This is the true impetus for locking down Trak. Keeping VP safe. Many dragons are killed solely for one or two choice items. Silverwing in VP has terrible loot, but an amazing Shaman item, and is thus killed for it.

Regarding rotations, TMO has respected both a Trak and VP rotation in the past. The VP rotation was broken by a rival guild, but was reestablished with a sunset period in the new agreement which TMO did not renew. All Trak rotations were fully followed, to the letter by TMO, but were not continued at TMO's option when the agreed upon sunset date arrived. TMO generally does not agree to rotations because it is not in the guild's interest to do so. It flies against the organization's primary objective. That said, TMO can help achieve its primary objective by encouraging server health. This has become a balancing test to determine which is more beneficial, a rotation or free for all. Currently, TMO feels that a free for all environment is reasonably respectful of the server's health while simultaneously allowing TMO to gear its members. This is currently the optimal solution for TMO when weighing its needs alongside server health. TMO generally agrees to a rotation when the notion has become appealing to the guild's interests.

As a personal aside, I was on a server that ran a rotation throughout Kunark and Velious. At one point we had over 18 guilds on the Venril Sathir rotation. If you check my post history, you can find more details about this. In short, a rotation encouraged guilds to stay smaller and it encouraged a gaming of the system. I maintain that rotations work only when the number of interested parties is low, say 4 or less. To have otherwise would set an artificial barrier against the natural process of guild mergers. The rotation ensured that insufficient supplies were spread amongst a very large swath of the population, and the strongest guilds kept their old spots on Kunark targets deep into Velious simply to pad their guild fund. Rotations are best run as private agreements amongst several guilds. To create a united set of serverwide rules is difficult and nightmarish.

While this server's raiding scene is tumultuous at times, I submit that it seems worse because many of the posters here submit a very distorted view of the subject. Soon more targets will become available as the GMs institute a new system of simulated patch day repops, and I suspect this will alleviate some, but certainly not all, cries of imbalance and unfairness.

As the server currently exists, it is set up to reward the most dedicated players. I fully sympathize with the plight of the more casual among us, but I posit that TMO acts, in an overall sense, in a logical and relatively fair manner.

Holy fuck lol. The other day a guild on red cleared every thing in fear except four mobs and ct. We zoned in and annihilated the guild and then destroyed ct. Meanwhile on blue...

[Ungriim]

Nizzypoo you're still around? Gimmie a red toon!

[fastboy21]

How was Quiet Solitude the #1 guild on xev?

Harmonium was top guild and Altera Vita was second all the way from Velious through the merger that ended Xev. Harm went back to Povar a few months before Xev was merged into DRO, and during that time AV was the only guild raiding basicly at the end game.

You could argue that Old Continent passed AV around the end of PoP, but they were a Euro guild and don't count (**ducks**).

You could also argue that for a short while Grey Council was on par with Harm and AV when they all came over from Povar together but GC faded out (despite being great folks) when they whole raiding portion of the guild left Xev when the Euro server opened...later on GC folded and became Null. Null got the ball rolling around Luclin iirc, but was never able to catch up to Harm, AV, and OC...most of the raiding members of Null eventually went to one of the other guilds.

Seofon (created by Frackus) from the ashes of Socratic Method and Pover-Tarew Artisans hung in there and prob wins the prize because they were one of the few guilds to transition from old school EQ and stay stable all the way down (I think they are still going on live). Hawkestone was never a top guild, but earned fame for waking the sleeper on Xev, at the time I believe it was the last live server that had never woken sleeper.

I'm sure QS was a great guild...but #1 on Xev? No chance.

[kotton05]

I had a TMO tracker tell me wraith was up and we got him twice now was nice of them. I've delt with a few exceptionally polite TMO so far. Also a few who steal your names in seb after you clear the way. Can't fault TMO for the time and investment they're occurred to get all pixels but there will be no rotAtion. Ecc was right about how racing for a mob is fun[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] also the OP does paint a picture of how it could be. This is all mute with half the servers omg wowfacerollers having the attention Span of a gold fish.

TMO cares about dragons. Either put up or shut up. Look at what happened to the Indians. They didn't have the pixels irl and got rolled. Lol I divulge. I see others putting efforts forth to get mobs and it's good and I respect them for that... It's Just IMO not where it should be. But hey what I know[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just enjoy this wonderful free server.

[Vandy]

Raid scene is horribly people hit end game and get fed up so they sell off their toon To highest bidder and plan to come back in Velious hoping things will be better. The highest bidder 70% of the time is TMO who buys them up twinks them out with the massive stores of dragon loot and parks them at a raid target permanently to be logged in at the drop of a text message. There is no mobilization needed while other guilds actually have to get to the raid target, they have a full force of alts - community accounts there ready to go. This just further Continues the cycle More loot to sell /bank ... More people quit with no raid scene options... more accounts to buy up.

[Deanob]

Originally Posted by Vandy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Raid scene is horribly people hit end game and get fed up so they sell off their toon To highest bidder and plan to come back in Velious hoping things will be better. The highest bidder 70% of the time is TMO who buys them up twinks them out with the massive stores of dragon loot and parks them at a raid target permanently to be logged in at the drop of a text message. There is no mobilization needed while other guilds actually have to get to the raid target, they have a full force of alts - community accounts there ready to go. This just further Continues the cycle More loot to sell /bank ... More people quit with no raid scene options... more accounts to buy up.

this