ASOIAF / Game of Thrones (SPOILERS INSIDE)

[holahouze]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the adaptation work is and always has been fine. my statement (and most of my complaints this season) is directed their original material, the 'non' adaptation work. they simply are not as good of storytellers as GRRM. most of the acting has been fine, but the actual weight of the dialog has been lacking in substance. characters do things that are completely out of character or make no actual sense for that person to be doing. there has been literally no background scheming or plotting by any of the characters. they have been holding our hands and everything has been exactly what it seems on the surface, and it's getting boring. i understood why nothing surprised me before, but seeing as how we are past the books now, there's no reason for me to see everything coming anymore, other than poor storytelling and/or story crafting.

Excellent post!

[Sage Truthbearer]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the adaptation work is and always has been fine. my statement (and most of my complaints this season) is directed their original material, the 'non' adaptation work. they simply are not as good of storytellers as GRRM. most of the acting has been fine, but the actual weight of the dialog has been lacking in substance. characters do things that are completely out of character or make no actual sense for that person to be doing. there has been literally no background scheming or plotting by any of the characters. they have been holding our hands and everything has been exactly what it seems on the surface, and it's getting boring. i understood why nothing surprised me before, but seeing as how we are past the books now, there's no reason for me to see everything coming anymore, other than poor storytelling and/or story crafting.

The thing is, you're trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison of totally different platforms.

D&D have a finite amount of space to work with. They have roughly 9 hours to tell a story each season. That means if they want to add more depth to a character, they have to cut out other stuff. If GRRM wants to add more depth, he adds another page to the chapter he's writing.

D&D's decisions may be predictable to you as a book reader who spends time posting on a forum analyzing the show, but D&D are trying to appeal to a wider audience of casual viewers that have not read the books and have significantly less context about Westeros than you do. They have a lot more to answer for.

Honestly, I think a lot of people are looking a gift horse in the mouth here. We got an 8-season, high budget, high fantasy cable series that is universally acclaimed and will actually finish with a proper ending. The fact that this happened at all is amazing.

[AenorVZ]

Originally Posted by holahouze [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I had a lot of problems with the D&D storytelling, too.

So, I'm guessing Cersei will name/appoint Jamie to her Queensguard. What do you think?

Jaime gonna put her down like a rabid bitch.

Originally Posted by Sage Truthbearer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The thing is, you're trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison of totally different platforms.

D&D have a finite amount of space to work with.

Then why do they keep shitting it up with bad storytelling? Preston's full season review leaves out any book comparison and judges the season purely on its own (lack of) storytelling consistency:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adDgvbyZwlY

Needless to say, even with book comparison removed, D&D are shit storytellers. Get back at us when you've watched that and then tell us what a great job they're doing.

[AzzarTheGod]

Originally Posted by AenorVZ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jaime gonna put her down like a rabid bitch.



Then why do they keep shitting it up with bad storytelling? Preston's full season review leaves out any book comparison and judges the season purely on its own (lack of) storytelling consistency:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adDgvbyZwlY

Needless to say, even with book comparison removed, D&D are shit storytellers. Get back at us when you've watched that and then tell us what a great job they're doing.

This. Not sure how anyone hasn't seen it by now. You don't need Preston to hold your hand to realize D&D are complete hacks (seriously, its bad)

True Detective Season 2 looks like a fucking masterpiece comparatively, story wise. I never thought another marquee series would come along that would tank even worse and bump the stock up of another HBO story-telling shitshow.

HBO needs to exercise more authority on these series is all I gathered from trainwreck after trainwreck the past several years across 4-5 different HBO marquee premium flagship series have all shit the bed due to show-runners and creative not being checked by HBO producers.

Showtime is much better about working directly with the creators of their series. The fucking CEO of Showtime even gets involved in the writing process on occasion when its obviously needed and it works out for the better every time.

Stop letting these guys operate with autonomy just because they had a few hits using someone elses storyboard. This is like Brad McQuaid telling Microsoft "We made EQ1" when asked where the fucking quality was after 30 million was spent..

Down with D&D.

[AenorVZ]

Originally Posted by AzzarTheGod [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

True Detective Season 2 looks like a fucking masterpiece comparatively, story wise.

I liked Season 2 =)

Tits, dragons and enough of the original story made GoT the biggest series in television history. Fortunately for HBO, us butthurt book fans make up only a small percentage of the audience. It's pretty obvious that most people who think the show does a good job of storytelling don't read much.

Bonus points for working McQuaid in!

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Sage Truthbearer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The thing is, you're trying to make an apples-to-apples comparison of totally different platforms.

Originally Posted by AenorVZ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's pretty obvious that most people who think the show does a good job of storytelling don't read much.

my biggest complaint is the Dorne story. it's quite possibly the worst thing that the show has done by a long shot, and we don't even have to compare it to the books for that to be true (but yes for the record, they massacred the Dornish story if you do wanna compare it to the book). they cast a great actor to play Doran Martell (so you know they had a plan at some point, but then they went and fucked it all up). but we can gloss over wasting talent. the show storyline was not well thought out, and it was horribly written. they introduced a character that's important, he does literally nothing of value or importance at any time, is a complete waste of everyone's time, and then he and his family line is killed off by Oberyn's whore to avenge Oberyn (whom was killed in a legal trial by combat), after the Martells have been around for literally a thousand years, because logic. the sandsnakes were written comically bad, like bad supervillan bad. one of them was a god damn award winning actress, and even she couldn't overcome the horrible dialog written for them. Hell, i could write better one liners if that's all we're going to be doing with them.

none of these things have to do with book to screen adaptation. these are just things that were poorly executed by the show. and don't even get me started on the Arya stuffs.

[Sage Truthbearer]

Originally Posted by AenorVZ

It's pretty obvious that most people who think the show does a good job of storytelling don't read much.

Nah, there are plenty of people who read all the books (including myself) who still enjoy the television series and are okay with most of the decisions D&D have made, with few exceptions.

Originally Posted by Sirken

my biggest complaint is the Dorne story. it's quite possibly the worst thing that the show has done by a long shot

I think everyone agrees that the Dorne story was cringeworthy.

There were also plenty of things D&D did that I was impressed with how well they adapted (like the Red Wedding, Shame) and things they changed that actually improved the story (like Hardhome, taking out Aegon).

I think D&D are in a difficult position, because they are forced to appeal to the casual viewer and adapt the books to be effective in a dramatic format. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I like to cut them some slack.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Sage Truthbearer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nah, there are plenty of people who read all the books (including myself) who still enjoy the television series and are okay with most of the decisions D&D have made, with few exceptions.



I think everyone agrees that the Dorne story was cringeworthy.

There were also plenty of things D&D did that I was impressed with how well they adapted (like the Red Wedding, Shame) and things they changed that actually improved the story (like Hardhome, taking out Aegon).

I think D&D are in a difficult position, because they are forced to appeal to the casual viewer and adapt the books to be effective in a dramatic format. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I like to cut them some slack.

i think youre missing the main point of my posts, and i'm not gonna waste my time repeating myself. all of the adaption work has been great. when they take the existing story and adapt it to screen, they do a great job. however, when they do not have the book to use as source material the quality drops dramatically. and before you call me a book purist, go back and read my last two posts, as they describe the problems pretty perfectly and do not use the books or material from the books or comparisons to the books, to explain why it is just plain bad.

[AzzarTheGod]

Originally Posted by AenorVZ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I liked Season 2 =)

Tits, dragons and enough of the original story made GoT the biggest series in television history. Fortunately for HBO, us butthurt book fans make up only a small percentage of the audience. It's pretty obvious that most people who think the show does a good job of storytelling don't read much.

Bonus points for working McQuaid in!

I enjoyed it as well, but story-telling wise it was somewhere between abstract and clunky with weak plot development, as well as very steroided out at times (same as GoT Season 6 with the steroids) which is why I made the comparison. As GoT has a lot of dead air, and at least 3 episodes packed with time wasting.

I'd take a couple more seasons of True Detective with Season 2 quality, but it doesn't change the fact it needed help. D&D being given autonomy over the show beyond the books hasn't panned out very well. I.E. wasting 3 episodes of Season 6 on steaming shit and filler.

If they weren't burning dead air and screen time constantly then I'd "give them some slack". They don't deserve any slack. This is a AAA production and execs should have moved in on it, period.

"We did EQ1" is a euphemism for arrogance and I think D&D possess a lot of that based on the success they have seen with someone else's storyboard. They are overdue for a gut check that they are not getting, per HBO's M.O. which is to praise early work and give passes out based on who the show-runner is. Same with Boardwalk's final season with Terrance Winter.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by AzzarTheGod [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I enjoyed it as well, but story-telling wise it was somewhere between abstract and clunky with weak plot development, as well as very steroided out at times (same as GoT Season 6 with the steroids) which is why I made the comparison. As GoT has a lot of dead air, and at least 3 episodes packed with time wasting.

I'd take a couple more seasons of True Detective with Season 2 quality, but it doesn't change the fact it needed help. D&D being given autonomy over the show beyond the books hasn't panned out very well. I.E. wasting 3 episodes of Season 6 on steaming shit and filler.

If they weren't burning dead air and screen time constantly then I'd "give them some slack". They don't deserve any slack. This is a AAA production and execs should have moved in on it, period.

"We did EQ1" is a euphemism for arrogance and I think D&D possess a lot of that based on the success they have seen with someone else's storyboard. They are overdue for a gut check that they are not getting, per HBO's M.O. which is to praise early work and give passes out based on who the show-runner is. Same with Boardwalk's final season with Terrance Winter.

100% agreed.

sooo, being that D&D know the end and are clearly fast tracking to that point.. do we think that Arianne Martell will end up killing her father (Doran) at some point (since they tried to merge some of Arianne Martell into Ellaria Sand)? or do you guys think thats just pure show garbage?