Confessions of an EverQuest Phase .5 Beta Tester

[stormlord]

Wow he really embellished his comments about AI. Gave it too much credit.

I can tell he just wanted to impress people [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[pickled_heretic]

tl;dr

[mixxit]

Roleplaying Anger

Verant has presented us with an interesting quandary. They have proclaimed role playing to be this undefineable, nebulous thing. Yet they are perfectly willing to label their game an RPG and provide switches. Just what is going on here? To kick start things, I'm going to paraphrase the definition of 'role play' from a psychological journal. To wit: Role play is the act of defining an imaginary persona, replete with desires and motivations for the express purpose of acting out an imagined situation. Now while this is obviously intended to be very general, it certainly is applicable. To paraphrase, you create a persona with motivations, and then stick with it. Contrary to Verants objections, they have done just that.

Not to long ago I noticed a debate on one of the popular forums discussing the relative and inherent evilness of a necromancer. Basically it was postulated that a necromancer isn't necessarily evil. Well, this opinions piqued my interest, and I started looking into necromancers, and all the other race/class/deity combinations. The conclusion I came to? Either no one ever noticed or chose to ignore the blurb Verant provides you when you create a new character. Here is an example from the process for a Gnome necromancer:


"As one of the few Gnomes to hear the call of the Plaguebringer you must worship in secret and keep your true dark desires from your fellow Gnomes, especially the Eldrich Collective, or else they will banish you from the workshops from Ak'Annon. There are several Gnomes who also believe in the power of Bertoxxulous and form a group known as the Dark Reflection. You are feared even within your enclave for you seek to master the dark art of death, necromancy."
Whammo! Motive! Political conflict! Better yet, the players could actually create the Eldrich Collective and the Dark Reflection and role play Gnomeish political intrigue (what I thought Verant was talking about when they said guilds were going to be tightly regulated, but that is a different tangent)! Further, this paragraph leaves plenty of room for player modification. Nowhere does it say all Gnomeish necromancers must be diabolical megalomaniacs. There is plenty of space for this general role archetype to fit your personal role playing desires. But it is a solid boundary within which to place your character. What is even more outstanding is that there is a different passage along these lines for each character/race/deity combination. Guess what everyone, Verant HAS defined role playing in Norrath. We are simply ignoring them. What Verant had failed to do is encourage role play in any meaningful way.

One of the maxims of the pen and paper realm of RPG's is that the game master set's the tone of the adventure. While the GM needs to keep their players wants, desires and attitudes in mind, it is up to the GM to set the tone. Only the GM can make the game either a role playing experience or a munchkin fest. This truism is just as valid in MMORPG's as it is in pen and paper games. Verant or any other online RPG company for that matter, MUST set the tone. So how in the world to you encourage role play without forcing it?

Many ideas have been tossed about as to how to make an RPG an RPG. I think that EverQuest is uniquely positioned to take advantage of several of these ideas. First and foremost, the faction system can and should be implemented to its fullest extent. There was a time when you would take faction penalties when grouping with those of opposite faction. In short, if you group a Paladin with a Shadow Knight, both parties should take it in the shorts. Next, you can expand on this. Each God of Norrath espouses a code of ethics. Many of these ethical stances are compatible, many are not. Would it not make sense if the followers of these gods actually gained tangible benefits or penalties based on their 'god faction'? If the above mentioned Paladin continued to associate with their Shadow Knight friend would they not eventually become a 'fallen Paladin' loosing many of the powers that makes them unique? In short, give the faction system real teeth. People need to realize that there is a reason for the conflicts that the history speaks of.

To compliment the faction system is would be nice if the guides had the ability to give experience bonuses to those they 'catch' behaving in character. Other ORPG's have successfully implemented such a system. It can be a very powerful tool in making sure the player base understands that acting in character is much more desirable than talking about the San Antonio Spurs. One of the things I try to incorporate into my pen and paper campaigns is the concept that the best way to get a 'powergamer' to role play is to convince them that role playing is the best way to power game. A temporary experience bonus is the best way to go about this.

These of course, are just a couple of potential ideas. There are as many thoughts on how to encourage role playing as there are people. Personally, I'm waiting for the game that allows the players to actually alter the geo-political landscape of the world and had truly world altering dynamic quests. But that is just my personal taste. One thing the Companies need to be aware of is that while right now there isn't much competition in this arena, there are more games on the way. Ultima Online is still going strong with its appeal to the more violent minded and those that like crafts. EverQuest has the 1st person 3D thing going for it. But let's not forget Asheron's Call with there everyone on one world and player devoted factions. Nor should we forget Middle Earth Online, Dark Ages or some of the other smaller scale MMORPG's that are either out or in development. We are rapidly approaching a highly competitive market, and the approach of catering to everyone will no longer work.

I can't remember who, but a famous statesman once said that you can please some of the people some of the time or none of the people all of the time. I hope Verant chooses to please the Roleplayers (yes, a personal bias) especially since they are very close to having an outstanding RPG on their hands. All I can do is hope, continue to comment, and if all else fails vote with my dollar. I like EverQuest. It is the best Online RPG I've experienced to date. But I could really love it. Perhaps one day Verant will decide to encourage role playing. Until such a time they choose to do so (as Maxwell Smart has been known to say), they missed it by that much....

Tale by Ahtenret

[Darian]

Originally Posted by Ahtenret

Roleplaying Anger


Many ideas have been tossed about as to how to make an RPG an RPG. I think that EverQuest is uniquely positioned to take advantage of several of these ideas. First and foremost, the faction system can and should be implemented to its fullest extent. There was a time when you would take faction penalties when grouping with those of opposite faction. In short, if you group a Paladin with a Shadow Knight, both parties should take it in the shorts. Next, you can expand on this. Each God of Norrath espouses a code of ethics. Many of these ethical stances are compatible, many are not. Would it not make sense if the followers of these gods actually gained tangible benefits or penalties based on their 'god faction'? If the above mentioned Paladin continued to associate with their Shadow Knight friend would they not eventually become a 'fallen Paladin' loosing many of the powers that makes them unique? In short, give the faction system real teeth. People need to realize that there is a reason for the conflicts that the history speaks of.

To compliment the faction system is would be nice if the guides had the ability to give experience bonuses to those they 'catch' behaving in character. Other ORPG's have successfully implemented such a system. It can be a very powerful tool in making sure the player base understands that acting in character is much more desirable than talking about the San Antonio Spurs. One of the things I try to incorporate into my pen and paper campaigns is the concept that the best way to get a 'powergamer' to role play is to convince them that role playing is the best way to power game. A temporary experience bonus is the best way to go about this.

These of course, are just a couple of potential ideas. There are as many thoughts on how to encourage role playing as there are people. Personally, I'm waiting for the game that allows the players to actually alter the geo-political landscape of the world and had truly world altering dynamic quests. But that is just my personal taste.

This was about the point that the notion "Super neat city where all races and classes coexist peacefully and magical book statues teleport you to any city in the world!" popped into my head

[Akame]

This thread deserves a sticky or a library move. Ozymandius, I haven't heard that name in ages.

[mixxit]

The RP Switch is added


Let's talk switch shall we. No, not the once widely discussed PK switch, devised to protect players from the marauding Ultima Online huns. I'm referring to the newly implemented RP (Role-play) switch.

The greatest criticism of the switch seems to be that now that it exists those who do not wish to role-play in this game (which is by definition a "role-playing game") do not have to. Now they just don't turn on the switch and they can talk about any idiotic thing they want. Score of the Pacers-Nicks game; What level you should be to take on a griffin; ANY SPOILER THEY FEEL LIKE SHOUTING OUT TO THE PUBLIC.

First off, it's ridiculous to blame the RP switch for the bad behavior and lack of common sense of some people. We were doomed to be inundated with inconsiderate jack-asses. People who don't realize that if somebody shouts something like "HOW DO I DO THE BANDIT QUEST" that you can reply to the guy with a /TELL, not by shouting it out. Personally, I don't think you should be giving such information out at all, but that's another article entirely.

So the criticism is that with the RP switch around, you can just say whatever you want as long as you don't have it on. Well, it does create a scapegoat, but it doesn't inspire more stupidity than there already was.

I'm no saint. I've been known to comment out of character, carry conversations that have nothing to do with the game, but I typically do those in /tell form. Only me and the guy I'm talking with know.

So if there's a problem with having the switch, let's see if we can find any benefit to it, because if there is none, then perhaps it should go.

Let's start with a VERY common situation. I come up to a crowd of individuals waiting for a boat on the dock. Five individuals. One is "red" (A PK player), three are "blue" (non-pk players) and the last is "purple" (an RP character).

How does one talk to such a mixed group? I suggest role-playing it, but then I always suggest that. Remember, this is a role-playing game, so I suggest that the "purple" RP switch be used as an indicator as to your demeanor. Since this is an RP game, if you see a purple (RP) player in the area, /TELL your "out-of-character" question to one of the others. The only real benefit I see to the switch is to indicate to YOU that you should be sympathetic to somebody who doesn't want to hear your OOC nonsense.

Is this the only benefit? Again, only if people actually follow through on the benefit of having such a switch will this really be of any use. It may not seem like it in my articles, but I have the utmost respect for the people I've met in EverQuest and find them to be a cut above those of other games. That having been said, no community is perfect. Just as you have the bully up the street or the house around the corner that turned out to be a crack-dealer's place, you have people in EverQuest who seem to feel nothing for other players.

So my hopes are not high for the RP Switch. It's a tool that will go unrecognized. What's more, it lends credence to the notion that Verant had no intent of policing the environment to make it "moron free". They're a corporation, and as such will always lean toward the way that gives them the widest audience and the most cash. It's not in their interest to eliminate players, and thus is born the RP switch. The game is made by players and for players, as Verant is fond of pointing out, but they are funded by the corporation for it's own good.

Face it, it's their ball, and if they want to they can pick it up and go home. And all we can do is call them names.

It's an unenviable task that folks like Brad McQuaid and his crew are faced with. They must try and make all of us happy; even those malcontents at EverQuest Express. And they know already that if you don't like what they're doing you'll most likely still stay in the game, because they have the only ball in town. (Well, there's UO, but who wants to play touch football when they can play tackle!)

So it comes down again to the environment being what we make of it. The kind of folks who read Fan sites are generally those who want to have fun with the game. The kind of folks who read "spoiler" sites are just in it for the false "prestige" they associate with dozens and dozens of levels. So it is with a heavy heart that I relinquish my hope that the RP switch will make any difference. Because my plea as to how the switch should be approached will go unheard by the teeming masses yearning to camp, yammer, and "train".

My only hope is that this comes up on the search engines when they search for Spoilers. So let's add a few words they'll understand and maybe they'll hit this page. My Search engine inserts follow…

[ Spoiler. dOOd. Free Spoilers. EverQuest Spoilers. Most Excellent Spoilers. Get to 30th level with no effort. Cheat. Cheat your ass off. Spoil others good time. EverQuest sword of total annihilation. Slay dragons with ease.]

Article by Archanalia.

[Abacabb]

Just throwing it out, I always have RP flag on when I'm training EC tunnels because it is my duty as a sworn reserve militia man to deter any threat to Freeport

and as for the locking of people in the banks and my other hijinx, my friend it is but the will of bristlebane that I steal your loot, grief your camp, and prank your character in the name of the holy L-O-L

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by mixxit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The RP Switch is added


Let's talk switch shall we. No, not the once widely discussed PK switch, devised to protect players from the marauding Ultima Online huns. I'm referring to the newly implemented RP (Role-play) switch.

The greatest criticism of the switch seems to be that now that it exists those who do not wish to role-play in this game (which is by definition a "role-playing game") do not have to. Now they just don't turn on the switch and they can talk about any idiotic thing they want. Score of the Pacers-Nicks game; What level you should be to take on a griffin; ANY SPOILER THEY FEEL LIKE SHOUTING OUT TO THE PUBLIC.

First off, it's ridiculous to blame the RP switch for the bad behavior and lack of common sense of some people. We were doomed to be inundated with inconsiderate jack-asses. People who don't realize that if somebody shouts something like "HOW DO I DO THE BANDIT QUEST" that you can reply to the guy with a /TELL, not by shouting it out. Personally, I don't think you should be giving such information out at all, but that's another article entirely.

So the criticism is that with the RP switch around, you can just say whatever you want as long as you don't have it on. Well, it does create a scapegoat, but it doesn't inspire more stupidity than there already was.

I'm no saint. I've been known to comment out of character, carry conversations that have nothing to do with the game, but I typically do those in /tell form. Only me and the guy I'm talking with know.

So if there's a problem with having the switch, let's see if we can find any benefit to it, because if there is none, then perhaps it should go.

Let's start with a VERY common situation. I come up to a crowd of individuals waiting for a boat on the dock. Five individuals. One is "red" (A PK player), three are "blue" (non-pk players) and the last is "purple" (an RP character).

How does one talk to such a mixed group? I suggest role-playing it, but then I always suggest that. Remember, this is a role-playing game, so I suggest that the "purple" RP switch be used as an indicator as to your demeanor. Since this is an RP game, if you see a purple (RP) player in the area, /TELL your "out-of-character" question to one of the others. The only real benefit I see to the switch is to indicate to YOU that you should be sympathetic to somebody who doesn't want to hear your OOC nonsense.

Is this the only benefit? Again, only if people actually follow through on the benefit of having such a switch will this really be of any use. It may not seem like it in my articles, but I have the utmost respect for the people I've met in EverQuest and find them to be a cut above those of other games. That having been said, no community is perfect. Just as you have the bully up the street or the house around the corner that turned out to be a crack-dealer's place, you have people in EverQuest who seem to feel nothing for other players.

So my hopes are not high for the RP Switch. It's a tool that will go unrecognized. What's more, it lends credence to the notion that Verant had no intent of policing the environment to make it "moron free". They're a corporation, and as such will always lean toward the way that gives them the widest audience and the most cash. It's not in their interest to eliminate players, and thus is born the RP switch. The game is made by players and for players, as Verant is fond of pointing out, but they are funded by the corporation for it's own good.

Face it, it's their ball, and if they want to they can pick it up and go home. And all we can do is call them names.

It's an unenviable task that folks like Brad McQuaid and his crew are faced with. They must try and make all of us happy; even those malcontents at EverQuest Express. And they know already that if you don't like what they're doing you'll most likely still stay in the game, because they have the only ball in town. (Well, there's UO, but who wants to play touch football when they can play tackle!)

So it comes down again to the environment being what we make of it. The kind of folks who read Fan sites are generally those who want to have fun with the game. The kind of folks who read "spoiler" sites are just in it for the false "prestige" they associate with dozens and dozens of levels. So it is with a heavy heart that I relinquish my hope that the RP switch will make any difference. Because my plea as to how the switch should be approached will go unheard by the teeming masses yearning to camp, yammer, and "train".

My only hope is that this comes up on the search engines when they search for Spoilers. So let's add a few words they'll understand and maybe they'll hit this page. My Search engine inserts follow…

[ Spoiler. dOOd. Free Spoilers. EverQuest Spoilers. Most Excellent Spoilers. Get to 30th level with no effort. Cheat. Cheat your ass off. Spoil others good time. EverQuest sword of total annihilation. Slay dragons with ease.]

Article by Archanalia.

I like it. Too bad RPing has become so unpopular. I'll admit, I don't roleplay often, but I don't go out of my way to speak out of context. I feel guilty when I speak out of context most of the time. Why? Because I wish others didn't feel so intimidated or awkward when I do RP. I get the feeling people think roleplayers are dorks. I don't like to make others uncomfortable. And I also find it hard to roleplay something when there's no actual effect in-game. Like this guy said, it would be nice if there was some kind of actual decrease in stats when you act out of character. The one example he gave was a paladin grouping with a shadowknight. If your stats decreased when you grouped, it would reinforce roleplaying. I don't see anything wrong with doing that, and there could be workarounds. Perhaps you could switch gods. Or maybe blessings would come with curses so that no advantage is a sum advantage. There're infinite ways to do it. We can't outright dismiss something. If you do that, you're admitting from the outset that you're too uncreative to solve the problem without throwing everything out the window.

One of hte coolest things in EQ is to just sit and listen to non-players talk. I wish that feature of EQ had been further developed. I wish I could go to special places in cities, like taverns, to hear non-players give clues about local quests and rumours. This is already the case, but the idea could be expanded to not just add more content or conversations, but there could be games to play in the taverns or pubs, things to keep is occupied while we listen for hints. Like dart board games on the walls or card games or chess/etc on the tables. Maybe conversation with non-players could be improved to the point where it's fun and responsive. Right now, non-players don't respond to keywords unless they're listed in their script. Make it so that non-players respond to all sorts of things. For example, a non-player in rivervale should respond to keywords like "rivervale" or "halflings". All non-players should have basic knowledge about the world and their local surroundings.

I've worked with an open-source mmorpg, and I saw how hte scripting system worked for non-players. I remember coming up wiht a multitude of ideas to improve the non-player speech engine. There're so many things one can do. What i've seen in EQ is not impressive. It tells me that either: a) eq players don't want it b) developers don't want it. Because it could be awesome! Imagine non-players that remember you. Imagine non-players having opinions about every other non-player and element in the game (using perlin noise). Imagine them striking up a conversation with you rather than the other way around! Sure, communication wouldn't be perfectly natural, but the system as a whole could be more flexible, less predictable, and comprehensive.

[pickled_heretic]

the game has no right to tell you whether or not it's RP to group with a shadowknight if you're a paladin. both characters could be in service to a common goal; not all paladins worship the god of love and not all shadowknights worship the god of hate... some of their goals could easily be mutual.

the only rp i've ever enjoyed was on a MUD with open PVP where if you want to play a character that must always attack orcs/paladins etc. because of his background then so be it. otherwise RP is impossible, and RP will never be practical on a carebear server.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by pickled_heretic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the game has no right to tell you whether or not it's RP to group with a shadowknight if you're a paladin. both characters could be in service to a common goal; not all paladins worship the god of love and not all shadowknights worship the god of hate... some of their goals could easily be mutual.

the only rp i've ever enjoyed was on a MUD with open PVP where if you want to play a character that must always attack orcs/paladins etc. because of his background then so be it. otherwise RP is impossible, and RP will never be practical on a carebear server.

You're choosing to throw it out hte window without giving it any further thought.

The way gods interact could be a part of the game that you consider when you do things. There could be various ways of cutting the slice. You're picturing it in the worst light, and then not thinking anymore about it.

Show passion! Don't you care? I've played so many games, including pen & paper, that anything is possible to me. I'm also a programmer. There's NOTHING that CANNOT be done. It's all in how you implement it.

Don't be so hasty to throw the lore of the game out the window.

We're not just talking about players and what they think, we're talking about what gods and lore think.