Where did WoW go right?

[Diggles]

hey, don't hate on pokemon you asshole

[Ferok]

WoW classic, take out all instancing: best game ever.

[Breeziyo]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Where did WoW go right?"

*posts negative stuff about wow like an angry mouth breather*

It went right by attracting a crowd outside of the norm. Not everyone wants to sit around camping an item you MIGHT get for 10 hours, or looking for a group for 8 hours straight. People have lives outside of games, and the WoW MMO genre gave people a pick up and play style MMO instead of a deep time invested one.

The disgruntled veterans of the game always like to keep the positives in check whenever the game is talked about.

[Dagner]

Originally Posted by square [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Helen Keller could type up a better post than that.

Requiring a huge time investment like EQ isn't really a challenge in a game sense. Some pulls in EQ can be a "challenge" (not really), but its only a challenge if something like a mes fails, or someone isn't paying attention. There are plenty of fights in WoW that require more movement and teamwork than EQ ever did even now on live. You could honestly argue combat/fights in EQ are by far easier than WoW, WoW is just more accessible, and based on players/subscribers over the years, they got it right. There's nothing wrong with attracting all types of people to a game, the more the merrier. Some people will always be annoying and/or suck, but that is gaming in general. The real problem is, no other gaming companies seem to be able to expand on WoW like they did on EQ and other past MMOs.

Please post your 8 year old nephews character name on here for us too, thanks.

Also lets point out the title again : "Where did WoW go right"
Not: "Lets all be angry mouth breathing nerds who hate on popular things"

To piggyback off this post I will just say that the encounters in WOW, lets take the lich king fight for example, are/were much more difficult than anything EQ has to offer. The coordination for 10/25 people and timing don't compare here. Get a decent tank, some CH clerics and make sure everyone is appropriately geared for their level in EQ and it essentially just becomes about #'s after that.

The game wasn't any less difficult in my opinion, it just appeared to be less difficult. If you make a bad pull or attack the wrong mob in EQ, you die and lose an hour of experience (that requires a group to get) and time invested in running back/finding a group. WoW essentially required the same thing, but took out the time sink with exp loss/travel/etc. But sophistication of game play? Come on, it's not even close... Typical encounters become cookie-cutter once you learn your class for both games, except with WoW you have more abilities/options. Basically the bottom line is EQ's consequence for bad play was time; WoW's consequence for bad play was not being recognized as a good player.

The biggest thing that kept me playing in vanilla was pvp. It was really the first mmrpg I played where I felt like whatever class I played, I had a legitimate chance 1v1 against any other class. It was remarkably balanced; the complete opposite of EQ. I mean even within classes in EQ, the races were imbalanced (iksar monks at botb, anyone? ogre/troll warriors? etc)

I haven't played WoW since middle of WOTLK because of all the automated grouping and cross-server battlegrounds. Having factions and knowing the good players on the opposite side of your faction and competing was one of the better aspects of the game. At some point, both games took a turn towards maintaining casual players and milking the cash for as long as possible.

[choklo]

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful responses. This and the "Where did EQ Live Go Wrong" thread are two of the most interesting topics on this forum. It really gets to the heart of why we spend so many hours on this hobby. It would probably be very useful to many gaming companies like SOE, Arenanet, Blizzard, etc., but most of all, it's a look in the mirror for us MMO guys and gals.

cheers

Nadah, retired 60 HIE enchanter p1999

[Vladesch]

My thoughts on why so many people went from EQ to WOW....
(Not all of these are my particular reasons)
These opinions are all based on the state of the 2 games around the end of 2004. (ie OOW vs WOW classic)
- Soloing in eq was lots of downtime. WOW is pretty much constant killing for most classes.
- WOW graphics were superior.
- EQ put basic class spells behind raid mobs that were competed with. (that was the final straw for me. It wasn't fun playing an enchanter who couldn't mez the mobs in the level-appropriate zones. Actually it wasn't fun or unfun because I never got a group.)
- Competition for raid mobs and cockblocking. (I was on asian time. Not much fun playing just after the US. I remember well the anguish trying to get the ssra kill. Hmm... actually any good rare spawn was close to impossible. I eventually got ssra by "camping" the entrance to ssra and joining up with another guild to kill him.)
- Locked zones. Stupid idea and a PITA for raiding guilds having to continually reflag people as they replaced the guild hoppers.
- Raid oriented view of the game by the devs. Raid or die.

[Arclanz]

Originally Posted by Vladesch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My thoughts on why so many people went from EQ to WOW....
(Not all of these are my particular reasons)
These opinions are all based on the state of the 2 games around the end of 2004. (ie OOW vs WOW classic)
- Soloing in eq was lots of downtime. WOW is pretty much constant killing for most classes.
- WOW graphics were superior.
- EQ put basic class spells behind raid mobs that were competed with. (that was the final straw for me. It wasn't fun playing an enchanter who couldn't mez the mobs in the level-appropriate zones. Actually it wasn't fun or unfun because I never got a group.)
- Competition for raid mobs and cockblocking. (I was on asian time. Not much fun playing just after the US. I remember well the anguish trying to get the ssra kill. Hmm... actually any good rare spawn was close to impossible. I eventually got ssra by "camping" the entrance to ssra and joining up with another guild to kill him.)
- Locked zones. Stupid idea and a PITA for raiding guilds having to continually reflag people as they replaced the guild hoppers.
- Raid oriented view of the game by the devs. Raid or die.

I don't know one friend who went to WoW. They all just stopped playing MMOs since EQ morphed into a vastly different game and all other MMOs suck. And I disagree that the cartoonish graphics of WoW were an improvement.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Arclanz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know one friend who went to WoW. They all just stopped playing MMOs since EQ morphed into a vastly different game and all other MMOs suck. And I disagree that the cartoonish graphics of WoW were an improvement.

My EQ friends who tried WoW were the same ones who went to DAOC. Most of them never returned from DAOC for the same reason you cite, although it was the morph to raid-centric content design that started in Kunark and took full flight in Velious that they despised. (Yes, Virginia, there were a fair few classic EQ players who abandoned EQ because of Velious. Not everybody loved Velious, damned near every player I hung out with pre-Kunark disliked it enough to stop playing EQ.)

The only people I know who stuck with WoW long-term are those for whom WoW was their first MMO, and pretty much everybody I knew who tried WoW as their first MMO stuck with it for years (most still play occasionally.) WoW apparently did a very good job of teaching new players to like it, that may be the most important thing Blizzard did right.