A Concerned Citizen Writes...

[Jimes]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Choice 3: Get a bunch of friends together that want to compete, that will track, that will batphone, that will organize a raid in minutes or accept failing until you do. Realize a strategy, execute it, and win. It doesn't happen overnight.

That requires effort. These peasants want handouts.

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because I don't want to spend 80 hours a week getting my pixels?

www.worldofwarcraft.com

[somnia]

Originally Posted by tekniq [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

@ Xasten: you are very well spoken and well mannered - wish there were more like you in your guild.

@OP: it's just the way p99 revolutionized, coupled with Splorf's statement - there's no way to really change the scene without PVP. Mobilization, numbers, tracking and zerging are specific to p99. It is unfortunate that "satisfying fights" can never been seen on this server where a dragon/god is taken down by few numbers, but you have to learn to adapt if you want loot because you can't really rely on GM intervention.

You have two choices right now:
1. Join TMO - they are getting every target now since VD is more or less out of the raiding scene.
2. Farm some plat and buy your items (if you prefer not to join TMO).

That's about all you can do now.

On the flip side, sooner or later, TMO will max gear their mains/apps/alts to a point where everyone and their lvl 2 alts will have their epics. When that time comes, I'm sure I can see them even putting Inny/CT/Trak on their endangered species list, but until that time comes, you only have 2 options.

This is basically the truth. Any semblance of "competition" on P1999 is over - there just aren't enough people with TMO-level devotion (hours played to 60, willingness to drop everything on raid spawn, tracking, organizing, etc) to compete. Realistically with no instances and a population of a few hundred online at once it makes sense to have only one hardcore guild anyways.

If about 30-50 people levels 55-60 of the right assortment of classes suddenly decide to
a) Maintain accurate tracking records for mob spawns and be able to report spawn the second it happens (stay logged in constantly checking or *cough* other methods)
b) Spend time leveling multiple alts to camp at locations of all targets in window.
c) 100% constant attention of all members.
d) Defining group formations ahead of time so everybody knows exactly how to organize themselves (port faster, efficient group formations)
e) Keep buffs up to clear trash the fastest (casters paying attention and keeping buff timers themselves)
f) Cell phone numbers of all members. All members keep logged in at all times and be ready to control their characters within seconds.
g) Accurate knowledge of statistics to maximize defense/offense abilities
h) Resist stacking correctly!
i) No ego complexes. If leader says you aren't doing something right - listen and improve.
j) Chain of command and obedient soldiers
k) Contingency plans in case of unexpected LD/crashes/etc.

Then they can run circles around TMO. The problem is finding people THAT devoted to winning on p1999. In all honesty, it's not hard to "compete" on P1999 - it's mostly about level of devotion to the game and how willing you are to treat the game as work instead of a fantasy world where statistics and mechanics are secondary to fun.

[falkun]

Four out of 18 targets is still more than the rest of the server gets on a "normal" spawn. The "little guys" aren't trying to get half the mobs, they are trying to get more than 0.

[fischsemmel]

Non-TMO folk JUST want more than 0 raid mobs? I'm not convinced.

They get more than 0 raid mobs right now, after all. Maestro gets socked. Draco pops at an opportune time. TMO loses a race here or there even without VD in the picture. TMO trackers miss a mob spawn. There's the endangered list. Etc. If people just want to kill some raid mobs, then they wouldn't be on the forums posting about how server repops would be better for everyone, especially when there is some evidence (though not necessarily conclusive evidence) that TMO will still dominate raid mobs WITH a full repop.

[Galaa]

Originally Posted by fischsemmel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Non-TMO folk JUST want more than 0 raid mobs? I'm not convinced.

They get more than 0 raid mobs right now, after all. Maestro gets socked. Draco pops at an opportune time. TMO loses a race here or there even without VD in the picture. TMO trackers miss a mob spawn. There's the endangered list. Etc. If people just want to kill some raid mobs, then they wouldn't be on the forums posting about how server repops would be better for everyone, especially when there is some evidence (though not necessarily conclusive evidence) that TMO will still dominate raid mobs WITH a full repop.

TMO is already dominating now, but with a fixed server repop, at least there's more chance of smaller guilds raiding the mobs before TMO can get there.

Lets say all spawns are up at the same time, and since its a fixed date/timing, the smaller guilds and their allies are already ready and waiting for the server to come up. Even if TMO has the manpower to simultaneously take down 5 or 6 raid mobs at the same time, there's still more than 10+ raid mobs that can be claimed by the smaller guilds when server restarts. And this chance is already better than what it is currently.

As long as there's a server restart which will respawn all raid mobs at exactly the same time, and with the dates and timings known, smaller guilds can plan ahead, form alliances, gather and logout at the zones and wait for the server to come up and claim the spawns. No single guild will be able to raid 10 raid spawns at once. This gives every other guild a chance to get the ones that TMO isnt targetting right at the server up.

The above situation is way better than the current one we have in P99 right now. Anyone can see that.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Galaa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TMO is already dominating now, but with a fixed server repop, at least there's more chance of smaller guilds raiding the mobs before TMO can get there.

Lets say all spawns are up at the same time, and since its a fixed date/timing, the smaller guilds and their allies are already ready and waiting for the server to come up. Even if TMO has the manpower to simultaneously take down 5 or 6 raid mobs at the same time, there's still more than 10+ raid mobs that can be claimed by the smaller guilds when server restarts. And this chance is already better than what it is currently.

As long as there's a server restart which will respawn all raid mobs at exactly the same time, and with the dates and timings known, smaller guilds can plan ahead, form alliances, gather and logout at the zones and wait for the server to come up and claim the spawns. No single guild will be able to raid 10 raid spawns at once. This gives every other guild a chance to get the ones that TMO isnt targetting right at the server up.

The above situation is way better than the current one we have in P99 right now. Anyone can see that.

I think you guys are underestimating the changes.

- TMO will buy more chars so they can camp stuff out
- Lots of people who have given up on the raid scene will come back and
- Be zerg recruited by the top guilds so they could go for multiple targets at once.

But anyway, the point is things would get interesting.

[Bolero]

Some seem to have missed the nuances of my original post, but this is of course to be expected, and it is beyond my aims to enable such to be able to detect that which they miss.
It is interesting who, representing what, has chosen to be most vociferous in reply, very interesting indeed.
Player based "evidence" should be immaterial if observation actually occurs. Additionally to this it is my understanding that when such evidence has been forthcomming the resulting punishments have been relaxed and/or ignored by the misbehaving parties, and moderators involved.
Futhermore any player generated evidence can with effort always be forged and/or manipulated, these are but two obvious points which need to be made in regards to the formation of player response to misbehaviour.
Other than this i thank the respondents for their time and consideration of the issues i have raised in this post.

[Zithax]

This server has been around for 2 and a 1/2 years, you are late to the party.

[Kevlar]

Sorry but the FIF policy would mean the "little" guilds would have their pick of the 17 mobs TMO isn' monopolizing. Server resets would be a good thing and more people would get loot. There would also be more loot to get with extra spawns.

[AenarieFenninRo]

FYI, i'm wordy, and fully expect reactions of TL;DR, but to the OP, hope this helps you in some way to understand more about the top end raid scene, and why it is how it currently is. Efforts are underway to help change this by my guild and others' guilds, but it takes a long time to get away from the poison that has been present for so long.

Originally Posted by Bolero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First, an introduction...

Hello all, i am a new player to the server and have enjoyed my time playing P99 but upon entering the "High End" game have experienced some very worrying behaviour.

Welcome aboard, always nice to see a new face!

Originally Posted by Bolero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But (you know one was coming)...
A certain Guild on this server will if allowed to continue in their behaviour ruin the efforts of all by repeatedly ignoring any adherrance to the Play Nice Policies supposedly enforced throughout the server.

Here comes what i believe is genuine constructive critticism (no flame):
Would it be possible when a Major High End encounter ensues for GMs/Guides etc... to invisibly observe behaviour ?

As you didn't post names, or what the situation was, its hard to determine which play nice policies you believe were breached. I know you did not post this information in an effort to keep this civil and not be a flame post, but it also hinders anyone's ability to determine what the situation was, and what you believe was against the play nice policies.

In an effort of full disclosure here, I am a member of TMO, we often get blamed for things. You gotta have a thick skin when you're one of, if not the top end guild. Its also why we must be vigilant in defending our name and why so many of us often post on threads like this. It is not a response to a feeling of guilt, it is simply a response. After all, as you pointed out, you're not naming names or the specific situation.

Sometimes one person (not everyone) in "guild A" complains in their Ventrilo or guild chat about their perception of an issue of what TMO did, which will of course mean that their whole guild now thinks TMO is doing something wrong. Its possible they are 100% correct, but more often, rose colored glasses are applied for what they believe was done wrong. I know this, because in the past it has happened to us, and the situation was reversed where we were the ones complaining about what was done.

If our guild is able to get to the target mob first (not trash around it), and engage it, we've been accused of things such as leapfrogging for instance. We have also accused others of the same act. Some of the top end guilds have thrown javelins at mobs when they only have one person in zone as a raid target is being engaged in an attempt to claim "First to Engage" when their raid forces have not been present. I have no doubt, we've also attempted this maneuver.

I'm not saying that it is right or wrong, just saying that this type of thing has and does happen in the top end raid scene.

Keep in mind though, that racing for a mob is just that, a race. If you or your guild engages first, good for you... our standard policy is to not touch a single mob at that point until whomever engaged first has either wiped or won the encounter. If that means we camp out to avoid adds beating on us, we do that. We are not in the habit of helping others prevent their own demise allowing them to win an encounter by cleaning up a mess they created for themselves. If they did not clear a path to the raid target before blindly rushing there to get FTE and trained themselves, we will likely stand and watch them die. This isn't because we dont like them, but if we as a guild are after a target, there is a reason we're after it, and thus helping another guild get it prevents us from doing so. Often after we kill the target, we help the other guild by rezing their folks along with our own. Its not animosity we hold toward them, it is our desire to make the kill.

As to your comment about GMs watching, this has been done many times in the past by Amelinda and others, in addition the upper end guilds have sent GMs petitions with their fraps and screenshots of the situations as well in an effort to show the situations encountered. The GMs are not there at every high end encounter, but they're there at many of them just invisible. Just because you cannot do a /who GM in the zone you're in, does not mean they are not there watching [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Bolero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If this were implemented, and the bad apples removed i would expect a greater enjoyment for the rest as a whole, and the declining of negative press which i am sure will or has already started to circulate concerning the P99 Project upon various other boards and MMO review websites to cease (or not start at all, hopefully).

I realize the Admin staff have a lot to do, but such bad behaviour is so rampant and frequent that even a newcommer such as myself is considering "what is the point to all of this if a few people act so immaturely ?"

I hear many people from many guilds have either quit, or are taking a break, solely because of this bad behaviour by some. Sooner or later, all who will be left will be the bad apples, and if i may continue the metaphor for a minute, who could stomache such a dish ?

I dont read a lot of other forums about what is going on over here, because I believe they likely present a skewed view by people who have either never played here, or due to their own issues no longer play here. There has been a bit of an exodus lately due to lack of new content, along with people complaining about unfair treatment by GMs etc. While the new content issue is true, some is people being a bit shall we say "unhappy" with not getting their way. I point no fingers when i say this, it is just a simple fact of life, if people dont like something they often dont continue to do it.

GMs have asked time and time again, "where's your evidence" and we have had to become cyber sleuths evidence horders, and constantly frapsing everything in TMO and in the other top end guilds along with being a premier raiding guild. When the evidence is presented, its not always looked at immediately, there have been complaints by people about it taking too long to get answers, or rectify some "wrong doing". People have left over this type of thing, claiming GM favoritism of TMO or "guild X", but the GMs are volunteers and not paid for their time, yet people expect them to be beholden to "working" on the server 24/7/365.

We as a guild were even raid suspended for a week due to our "wrong doings" from a situation that had happened a month previous. We then presented our own evidence of the same situation, and a few days later the evidence we provided was reviewed, and our suspension was lifted. There was no apology of a mistake, and in fact we were told we "likely deserved it for something else anyway", and not to discuss that we were unsuspended until after it happened at midnight.

We followed what we were told by the GM, and surprised the heck out of another guild when we were killing mobs again at 12:01 AM. This resulted in claims of GM favoritism, secret handshakes, and that we had sacrificed a goat to the god Horace to get our suspension lifted. There's even a fraps out there, of someone saying in their guild chat that we were all of a sudden breaking the rules, but that "TMO gives 0 fuks" about following the rules. The simple fact was, it took time for the GM to review the evidence, but it was SOLID evidence.

As in all things, take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt, and learn to read between the lines. Ask people here what they think about the raid scne before with several top guilds, and how it is now, and evaluate for yourself before taking what someone else says as gospel is my view.