Trakanon Rotation

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Lanuven [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sad thing is this rotation will never even be considered seriously as long as VD is pulling their crap membluring dragons that have already been engaged. FTE is FTE. Leave it alone if someone else is fighting it.

As far as that goes, why hasnt a GM intervened in this exploit ? This is clearly not classic and is still being used to grief other guilds ?

.

I'm impressed with the capability that VD has shown, as a raid force, in the last few months on their own, but suddenly becoming the #2 guild on the server due to a departure of one of the top raiding guilds does not automatically entitle a guild to a rotation. I understand that VD has accomplished all of the raids outside of VP on their own and from being aligned with TR/IB, as a joint raid force. I do not doubt VD would be #2 now even without the prior alliance. VD has legitimately gathered forces faster and beaten TMO to several targets or happened to be in the right place at the right time, just like TMO and IB in the past, when multiple targets pop in quick succession. Such is raiding life on a non-instanced, variance-timer server.

Rotations come about when two guilds legitimately are capable of engaging and downing a raid target/zone and the time/energy investment becomes too much to keep the heightened state of competition sustained indefinitely, ala camping at Trakanon ledge every 3 days.

Without proving to the server or themselves that VD is capable of killing a dragon in VP through legitimate competition or even simply asking "hey we have x number of keys and we would like to try a VP dragon please give us one shot uncontested to see if we can stand up to it and maybe we can talk later about a rotation". From the previous posts above, VD essentially demands(ed) a VP rotation be installed with no grounds on which to base their ability to handle such a target besides having acquired x number of VP keys. When met with the lack of the response VD desired, VD set forth and implemented a plan to massively grief and bully the opposing guild into accepting a rotation by way of using at best a disreputable tactic, or most likely what will be deemed an exploit/broken game mechanic. (I'm not commenting one way or the other about the Talendor incident, I was not at that particular raid and only know that the GMs have since said that all past raid petitions that were unanswered were dismissed and everyone to move forward and start fresh.)

There are several VD members in this thread that have asked what TMO will do to make the server a better place, when they should be asking that question of themselves before asking anyone else.

VD had a chance to set a new tone for the raid scene of P99 with the upsetting of the end game balance by the departure of IB, but instead has resorted to "if I beat you up enough, then you'll like me attitude". Two weeks ago when the top two guilds at the time were on vacation, VD instead of sharing dragons and bosses, like they now request, went and claimed all of them for themselves and in the process upsetting the other 3 raiding guilds through potentially questionable raid situations.

If you want respect, you first need to give respect.

[Maze513]

I dont always use Macro Quest
But when I do
I use it in VP
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[falkun]

O this is going to be fun!

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rotations come about when two guilds legitimately are capable of engaging and downing a raid target/zone and the time/energy investment becomes too much to keep the heightened state of competition sustained indefinitely, ala camping at Trakanon ledge every 3 days.

Like TMO is forcing VD to do right now (and vice versa?) The OP directly addresses this.

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Without proving to the server or themselves that VD is capable of killing a dragon in VP through legitimate competition or even simply asking "hey we have x number of keys and we would like to try a VP dragon please give us one shot uncontested to see if we can stand up to it and maybe we can talk later about a rotation".

Cold has been asking for a VP rotation for some time. Zeelot has been stonewalling her. If she would get a better response by asking for a single shot, I'm sure we will take that avenue to "prove" ourselves as many of your members insist.

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are several VD members in this thread that have asked what TMO will do to make the server a better place, when they should be asking that question of themselves before asking anyone else.

VD forced an open Ragefire agreement that TMO nearly ignored (after agreeing to it). TMO wanted a rotation when they were suspended, but then dropped the topic immediately after their raid suspension was dropped early. VD even submitted an updated Ragefire bug report when the bug fix was found to not be implemented the way it should have been.

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

VD had a chance to set a new tone for the raid scene of P99 with the upsetting of the end game balance by the departure of IB, but instead has resorted to "if I beat you up enough, then you'll like me attitude".

While you were raid suspended, TMO could have stayed out of VP. However, they griefed VD in VP even when they were not allowed to kill the dragons themselves. If you wanted to change the tone of the raid scene, you would have not interfered when you could not have gained anything from the interference anyways. You griefed VD purely out of hatred.

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Two weeks ago when the top two guilds at the time were on vacation, VD instead of sharing dragons and bosses, like they now request, went and claimed all of them for themselves and in the process upsetting the other 3 raiding guilds through potentially questionable raid situations.

VD zoned their Gorenaire puller when it appeared a question of FTE might arise. Taken was in Skyfire for an hour and a half before VD showed up to compete against them for Talendor. Even after we showed up, VD did not pull Talendor until after Taken had wiped. VD also watched as TMO mages CoH'ed Taken/BDA/Divinity (I can't remember which guild(s)) down into the lair to compete against us for Trak. Please point me to any examples of raid disputes that arose from VD during the week TMO/IB were not competition.

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you want respect, you first need to give respect.

Pot, meet kettle.

[Wotsirb401]

Originally Posted by Fountree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Metallikus...you're telling us that in your mind, you equate training to protect dragons we would later kill with CHing another guilds dragons for no reason other than to grief? On multiple different occasions? If you are, then seriously LOL

Trains can be dealt with, Hoshkar being CH'd cannot. They are very different forms of raid interference. One is exploiting a broken mechanic, the other is not.

The word "exploit" does not exist in VP. Haven't you read the many posts about there not being any rules in that zone. If there are no rules then anything is allowed.

If we took speed limits away, people would drive 150mph in school zones , I know I would

[Maze513]

Originally Posted by Wotsirb401 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The word "exploit" does not exist in VP...

And for this reason alone I have been Duping Plats in VP, Im still working on the coding for Trak BPs... but soon my child soon, your looting are coming

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Wotsirb401 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The word "exploit" does not exist in VP. Haven't you read the many posts about there not being any rules in that zone. If there are no rules then anything is allowed.

100% wrong.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...19&postcount=1

Let's take a look at that again.

Quote:
Zones deemed Non-Disputable will have no CSR interaction on raid disputes. We will not respond to or take any action on raid disputes involving these zones. Currently the only zone that this applies to is Veeshan's Peak.

Quote:
no CSR interaction on raid disputes. We will not respond to or take any action on raid disputes involving these zones.

Quote:
raid disputes
Ninja looting is not a raid dispute. It is an individual basis. If a mob is killed in a non-disputable zone, the group (and thus raid/guild) that is merited the kill has rights to the loot. If they don't grant you permission to loot the corpse, you are violating an individual server rule by ninja looting.

Pathetic honestly that you are resorting to that after losing a kill and crying about it.

If you have any more questions about this you can send me a PM.

If we took speed limits away, people would drive 150mph in school zones , I know I would

Then you are a reckless person that only cares about your self and ignores the well being of others.

[Sirken]

heh, rotations.

i generally don't comment on blue server issues. but i have a question for you guys;

EQ is a competitive mmo based around the downing of mobs. downing the mob provides a sense of accomplishment provided only because of the competition from other guilds for those same contested mobs. i seriously doubt any of you feel like you did big things by downing a mob that is 12 years old, and has "how to kill" strats posted everywhere on the web, all the while there is absolutely no competition for the mob it self.

and so my question is this; if u remove the competition to downing a mob, what sense of accomplishment does killing the mob give you?

[Fazlazen]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

heh, rotations.

i generally don't comment on blue server issues. but i have a question for you guys;

EQ is a competitive mmo based around the downing of mobs. downing the mob provides a sense of accomplishment provided only because of the competition from other guilds for those same contested mobs. i seriously doubt any of you feel like you did big things by downing a mob that is 12 years old, and has "how to kill" strats posted everywhere on the web, all the while there is absolutely no competition for the mob it self.

and so my question is this; if u remove the competition to downing a mob, what sense of accomplishment does killing the mob give you?

AMEN, my point exactly.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

heh, rotations.

i generally don't comment on blue server issues. but i have a question for you guys;

EQ is a competitive mmo based around the downing of mobs. downing the mob provides a sense of accomplishment provided only because of the competition from other guilds for those same contested mobs. i seriously doubt any of you feel like you did big things by downing a mob that is 12 years old, and has "how to kill" strats posted everywhere on the web, all the while there is absolutely no competition for the mob it self.

and so my question is this; if u remove the competition to downing a mob, what sense of accomplishment does killing the mob give you?

For me, its the fact that I didn't do it on Live. If I wanted a PVP game, I wouldn't come back to a notoriously PVE game.

With that said, the competition is fun, especially on some mobs. I thoroughly enjoy fighting TMO for CT when the zone fully repops. Gore last week was also enjoyable. However, VP is an entirely different animal. The training that is prevented in other zones by server rules are freely allowed in VP. If VP was managed with the same PVE rules that exist for the rest of the server, I'd be fine with competition. But griefing and competition are not the same in my opinion. If you grief, expect to be griefed, but I'll respond to competition with competition.

[Fazlazen]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For me, its the fact that I didn't do it on Live. If I wanted a PVP game, I wouldn't come back to a notoriously PVE game.

With that said, the competition is fun, especially on some mobs. I thoroughly enjoy fighting TMO for CT when the zone fully repops. Gore last week was also enjoyable. However, VP is an entirely different animal. The training that is prevented in other zones by server rules are freely allowed in VP. If VP was managed with the same PVE rules that exist for the rest of the server, I'd be fine with competition. But griefing and competition are not the same in my opinion. If you grief, expect to be griefed, but I'll respond to competition with competition.

Whats to say VP can't be "TRAIN FREE" ?