Raid Petitions / GM CS

[Versus]

Just want to point this out....

He FD'd...then later he got agro....whos to say he didnt stand up between that time? o.O

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Versus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just want to point this out....

He FD'd...then later he got agro....whos to say he didnt stand up between that time? o.O

So, just to recap, your entire claim to FTE is based on speculation that Darkdeath stood up before his eye died to retain aggro, which chat/combat logs aren't going to show us?

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, just to recap, your entire claim to FTE is based on speculation that Darkdeath stood up before his eye died to retain aggro, which chat/combat logs aren't going to show us?

quoting this for the lulz.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

quoting this for the lulz.

I'm just saying your log you posted doesn't prove FTE like you think it does, from what I understand:

1) Darkdeath is shown FD before his eye is killed by Inny.

2) Based on the mechanics quoted above, the mob cons indifferent if the eye dies while you are FD, therefore NOT aggro.

3) Your log is not able to show Darkdeath standing up before his eye dies to retain aggro.

As for who actually had FTE, I cannot tell from that log that you posted as verifiable proof.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm just saying your log you posted doesn't prove FTE like you think it does, from what I understand:

1) Darkdeath is shown FD before his eye is killed by Inny.

2) Based on the mechanics quoted above, the mob cons indifferent if the eye dies while you are FD, therefore NOT aggro.

3) Your log is not able to show Darkdeath standing up before his eye dies to retain aggro.

As for who actually had FTE, I cannot tell from that log that you posted as verifiable proof.

lol

[Mcbard]

If you GMs need any player logs or screenshots/videos to help you figure out some of these things feel free to send me a message and I will provide you with what I can if I was around for it (january you're pretty out of luck! :P ).

Other than that, keep fighting the good fight, and thank you for donating your time!

[Bruman]

"Hey guys, lets continue to bicker and argue over old ass shit, just like we have every fucking day for the past year or more"

GG

[Amelinda]

Originally Posted by john_savage1982 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everybody knows GMs are biased. Don't like it? Don't play. They don't care either way.

Actually we are all very unbiased. The only people who even look at raid petitions are Rogean and myself and neither he nor i care whcih pixels go where.

Ambrotos & Gratis are both excellent guides who do not handle raid level petitions but have been nothing but fair in answering all other petitions that i've seen.

SO to say that the staff is Biased is...I think....unfair.

Originally Posted by Bruman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Hey guys, lets continue to bicker and argue over old ass shit, just like we have every fucking day for the past year or more"

GG

This is true.

Not gonna address the most recent Inny in detail because i'll do that in the petition section and have already done it in detail with the IB folks who petitioned. Here is the top 5 for the encounter log:

http://pastebin.com/PCjauCe8

TMO had FTE with darkdeath's eye and darkdeath. Darkdeath was engaged for the entire fight (73 seconds).

Unfortunately I wasn't there so didn't see any shenanigans.

To the OP/ On to the MEAT of the post:

The simple fact of the matter is that there are really only 3 individuals who are empowered to make raid decisions. Nilbog, Rogean and myself.

I can definitely sympathize and understand your frustrations. However, do please realize that all 3 of us have real lives and stuff happens in those real lives.

People get sick. People have real life emergencies. I do understand that you get aggravated not hearing anything. But realize that it is rare for me to stand up and announce things publically.

I actually intended to do something about a few of the raid petitions a few weeks ago but have been dealing with being ill and then my father had emergency surgery. I see my logs and realize i miss tons and tons of tells because i leave my characters on pretty much non-stop.

I realize I could have been more communicative and I apologize for that. The best explanation that I can give you is that my plate and hands have been pretty full lately. Just when i think things have settled down and I can get to the raid petitions something else explodes in my face. (Which is not your fault or issue but it does affect you and for that I am sorry)

Let's place responsibility where it is due though:

ALL parties involved need to be more responsible about their own actions and need to behave more in the way they would like to be treated than "what will the rules let me get away with"

The intentional training bullshit needs to stop (Do I really need to name names? I can. and i'm sure we'd all have a big laugh) (KNOWING that you are a big ole trainer and being able to prove it are two different things. Unfortunately)

The poopsock race makes shit 10x more difficult than it has to be. I hope you realize that.
The intentional griefing of each other in all aspects is just ridiculous. can't tell you how many times i get petitions from all sides that aren't petitioning individuals. "TMO just took my pawbuster" "IB Is here ksing me in Droga" "VD is trying to steal my AC Spawn" "BDA is stealing my Fungus king camp" "Divinity is here boxing"

Whenever i see those petitions or get those sorts of tells I shake my head and just want to respond and be a smarty pants. "Really? so one person is boxing an entire guild?" "TMO is raiding paw buster now? IB raiding droga? VD having mass OOT raid!! Film at 11!!"

It's a vicious nasty cycle. People are blaming entire guilds for the douchey actions of a few people. Then they are turning around and perpetuating the douchebaggery by griefing and dicking over other, unrelated (except by guild tag) people at other points outside of raid situations. That then causes THOSE people to be angry at you and they retaliate. Then you have to 1 up them and it just keeps perpetuating itself. All very 3rd grade bully crap. AND ALL SIDES ARE BULLYING.

If people would grow up and let things go then there wouldn't be quite so much douchebaggery floating around the server :P

anyway. enough of my commentary. Do expect to see action taken in the coming days.

The days of thinking you can get by with shit are over.

[Bruman]

Originally Posted by Amelinda [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ALL parties involved need to be more responsible about their own actions and need to behave more in the way they would like to be treated than "what will the rules let me get away with"

...snip...

It's a vicious nasty cycle. People are blaming entire guilds for the douchey actions of a few people.

...snip...

If people would grow up and let things go then there wouldn't be quite so much douchebaggery floating around the server :P

I think I've been saying the same stuff for a while now myself. Noone really cares, the only thing that matters is their pixels. They'll continue to be grown man-children until the server dies.

I don't know why the GMs bother anymore, and I'm amazed you guys still try. More power to you - I would've thrown in the towel by this point (in response to the raid stuff that is, I'd continue helping the rest of the server).

I've long wondered what the GMs could do to end it. If you guys just stopped paying attention altogether, it'd turn into a griefing trainfest (even more-so than it is currently). If you just started banning both involved parties, then opposing guilds would intentionally start things even if they were clearly no able to handle a mob (in a "if I can't get it, noone can" move). The only thing I can think of that'd work would be to get rid of variance, and introduce a GM enforced rotation. If mob isn't down by X time, then it's FFA, and whoever has the KS group wins.

[Shiftin]

Originally Posted by Amelinda [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The simple fact of the matter is that there are really only 3 individuals who are empowered to make raid decisions. Nilbog, Rogean and myself.

I can definitely sympathize and understand your frustrations. However, do please realize that all 3 of us have real lives and stuff happens in those real lives.

This, and the resulting commentary, are an awesome (not in a good way) microcosm of the actual problem that led to this OP and what you know i'm ready to unload.

What happenned here? One person posted a legitimate problem. Immediately, people who are on the other side of the most recent issue that highlighted the problem (stealin, etc) jumped in and tried to muddy the waters / confuse the actual problem. IB folks responded taking the bait and going off the point. Then people who weren't even involved gave their fourty two cents. Things devolved rapidly, and the rules (of the forum in this case) were slowly then blatanly violated as things got worse. Then, 3 days later, someone with authority chimed in and tried to address the real issue, way too late.

It should be a very familiar pattern. It's not a slam on TMO, or IB, or VD, or BDA, or the dozen people who have never even raided here who think they have a valid opinion, it's just the very predictable cycle of events that happens on the server on an almost daily basis.

There are 3 people empowered to address issues, and 1 person who does, you. It's not fair to you and it's not fair to the people who play here in good faith under a very clear posted set of rules.

Amelinda, i've said this to you privately and now i'm saying it publicly. You cannot be the only person addressing these rules given the tools available to you and the expectation that we follow the rules. There aren't actually 3 people who deal with the issues and that hasn't been close to true for a long time.

We can:
a) scrap the rules, go wild west style
or
b) empower more people to actually handle problems, with a transparent appeals process and data available publicly to shut up these he said/she said that come about every week.

There's no in between. There can't be. We've tried that for 6 months and it's a complete and utter failure. You have a real life and real problems - and this *isn't your job*. Rogean doesn't respond to raid petitions and hasn't given a crap about them for a very long time - again, this is his hobby, so that's his prerogative. If that wasn't true, we've had back the loot from *last july* that he promised us and we've bumped the petitions regarding repeatedly.

This is not a status quo that works. Drastic things have to happen, whether that's scrapping the rules entirely or adding non-classic (mob shouting FTE, etc) mechanics.

edit: +1 for it being completely asinine that the variance is still 4 days on mobs with no patch days. It inevitably separates high value targets and absolutely encourages these FTE poopsock sessions.