Proposal to the TMO leadership

[Paumad]

Originally Posted by Calabee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

get whoever has leads to Rants and Flames to pass you leadership, and disband the old tmo tag imo.

Would be much more fitting :P

I would say it as much chance of happening as VD raiding on their own.

Salut Culprit! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Shiftin]

Like when they killed almost every raid mob in one night at non-us prime time without help the weekend vp opened? Pretending today's VD is the same as 9 months ago VD is like comparing today's TMO with prekunark TMO - completely moronic. Your pride, childish stubbornness and lack of situational awareness has led you to make some incredibly -EV decisions lately.

It's actually objectively really funny.

[Paumad]

Yes Shiftin, let's have that argument again. VD is a fully capable raid guild, noone denies that, except themselves. I'll just state the obvious for you again. Killing is not = competing.
Please continue to bring good points to RnF where the decisions are made and the trolling important, and do so while calling everyone a moron
I'm like actually objectively super syrius.

[Shiftin]

Originally Posted by Paumad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes Shiftin, let's have that argument again. VD is a fully capable raid guild, noone denies that, except themselves. I'll just state the obvious for you again. Killing is not = competing.
Please continue to bring good points to RnF where the decisions are made and the trolling important, and do so while calling everyone a moron
I'm like actually objectively super syrius.

First, the underlined is 100% contradictory to what your guildleader has said every time we've come to the negotiating table, so quit pretending that's your stance as a guild. You're an officer and you know this full well.

The bolded is a silly fallacy for the very specific reason that mobs don't spawn in a linear fashion here. You've devalued and put down a guild that is completely capable of killing *anything* you can. Meaning, that by leaving them out of the agreement, if you're busy somewhere, they can and will kill anything you had rights to. Want to poopsock inny and your PD spawns? You really think the 30+ keyed VD can't kill your phara? Just because they haven't been provoked enough in the past doesn't mean they won't be in the future. It's already happened with Trak. VD has 2 server firsts on epics. They are an extremely tight knit group that's far more capable than you want to admit.

Six months ago, the literal majority of your raid force was sub 60 and 2/3 of you would get feared vs any dragon you faced. Two months ago you were still wiping to your own draco trains with fifty people. If you're going to claim to be the strongest guild on the server (lol), then you have to also admit that a guild can progress amazingly fast in a short period of time. If you would think more than 30 minutes ahead, this may lead you to realize why pretending VD isn't a threat is amazingly short sighted.

I'm sorry I only post with logic and cogent arguments, regardless of what name is on the forum. I was a teenager when EQ was released, and while I may have been immature then, as a functioning adult, I don't enjoy or think it's worth my time to post nonsense for the express purpose of making people angry. I don't get off on that like so many here do.

If you want to have the discussion somewhere else besides RNF i'm happy to do it. We tried to make all these points to your fearless leader, but he didn't have any interest in talking until we trained him back to 59, something i'm happy to make a weekly scheduled raid until he quits or stops acting like a 3 year old. Your guildleader claimed in our first attempt at extending the rotation that despite your members ninja looting ragefire (jan 12) and innoruuk (december 24th) and memblurring talendor (december 31), your guild has "broken no rules" recently. I'd love to know how you want us to approach someone with so little self awareness, because he's made it clear over and over again that he's happy to pretend the rules don't exist (see: vox a few days ago, he was leading the raid on Ivandyr that resulted in your suspensions) and only responds to a show of force.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First, the underlined is 100% contradictory to what your guildleader has said every time we've come to the negotiating table, so quit pretending that's your stance as a guild. You're an officer and you know this full well.

The bolded is a silly fallacy for the very specific reason that mobs don't spawn in a linear fashion here. You've devalued and put down a guild that is completely capable of killing *anything* you can. Meaning, that by leaving them out of the agreement, if you're busy somewhere, they can and will kill anything you had rights to. Want to poopsock inny and your PD spawns? You really think the 30+ keyed VD can't kill your phara? Just because they haven't been provoked enough in the past doesn't mean they won't be in the future. It's already happened with Trak. VD has 2 server firsts on epics. They are an extremely tight knit group that's far more capable than you want to admit.

Six months ago, the literal majority of your raid force was sub 60 and 2/3 of you would get feared vs any dragon you faced. Two months ago you were still wiping to your own draco trains with fifty people. If you're going to claim to be the strongest guild on the server (lol), then you have to also admit that a guild can progress amazingly fast in a short period of time. If you would think more than 30 minutes ahead, this may lead you to realize why pretending VD isn't a threat is amazingly short sighted.

I'm sorry I only post with logic and cogent arguments, regardless of what name is on the forum. I was a teenager when EQ was released, and while I may have been immature then, as a functioning adult, I don't enjoy or think it's worth my time to post nonsense for the express purpose of making people angry. I don't get off on that like so many here do.

If you want to have the discussion somewhere else besides RNF i'm happy to do it. We tried to make all these points to your fearless leader, but he didn't have any interest in talking until we trained him back to 59, something i'm happy to make a weekly scheduled raid until he quits or stops acting like a 3 year old. Your guildleader claimed in our first attempt at extending the rotation that despite your members ninja looting ragefire (jan 12) and innoruuk (december 24th) and memblurring talendor (december 31), your guild has "broken no rules" recently. I'd love to know how you want us to approach someone with so little self awareness, because he's made it clear over and over again that he's happy to pretend the rules don't exist (see: vox a few days ago, he was leading the raid on Ivandyr that resulted in your suspensions) and only responds to a show of force.

TL;DR

[Paumad]

Holy shit man, holy shit. That is exactly why there is no talk at all, because everything is always twisted one way or another.

I mean, in your wall of text, there isn't a single line that isn't TMO hating, and I won't spend the time quoting and making a counter argument for everything you said. You, as in IB, have broken as many rules as we have. You are not objective, and speaking to you would probably prove as useful as dealing with Swarws. If you were actually not so biased and bashing, I would take that time, out of here. But despite what you say, you are trolling even more than I am.

There is one point I agree on, that is VD is capable of killing anything they want, and we are fully aware of it. We know we will have to compete and that we will lose some juicy targets. We've always done so, against you, and now against you and VD.

My point is, they are not acting as a third party, just an extention of IB. They chose to only raid agaisnt us hence why they are where they are now (which isn't so bad, quit the qq'ing). You on the other hand, can have your uncontested VP and Trak rounds as competing adults amirite, and keep feeding VD with loots and some more anti-TMO feelings. Mostly simply because they've never experienced raiding against you and probably will never chose to (you are the great p99 white knigths afterall, nothing like TR). Until they do that, don't expect us to give them the respect they'd rightfully deserve if they fought their way up by themselves.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Paumad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Holy shit man, holy shit. That is exactly why there is no talk at all, because everything is always twisted one way or another.

I mean, in your wall of text, there isn't a single line that isn't TMO hating, and I won't spend the time quoting and making a counter argument for everything you said. You, as in IB, have broken as many rules as we have. You are not objective, and speaking to you would probably prove as useful as dealing with Swarws. If you were actually not so biased and bashing, I would take that time, out of here. But despite what you say, you are trolling even more than I am.

There is one point I agree on, that is VD is capable of killing anything they want, and we are fully aware of it. We know we will have to compete and that we will lose some juicy targets. We've always done so, against you, and now against you and VD.

My point is, they are not acting as a third party, just an extention of IB. They chose to only raid agaisnt us hence why they are where they are now (which isn't so bad, quit the qq'ing). You on the other hand, can have your uncontested VP and Trak rounds as competing adults amirite, and keep feeding VD with loots and some more anti-TMO feelings. Mostly simply because they've never experienced raiding against you and probably will never chose to (you are the great p99 white knigths afterall, nothing like TR). Until they do that, don't expect us to give them the respect they'd rightfully deserve if they fought their way up by themselves.

We should just ally with some feeder guild give them all those loot we don't need and keys to harrass ib rotation targets.....personally I am against all rotations

[Dravingar]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We should just ally with some feeder guild give them all those loot we don't need and keys to harrass ib rotation targets.....personally I am against all rotations

It's hard to ally with a feeder guild when you already are one.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Paumad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Holy shit man, holy shit. That is exactly why there is no talk at all, because everything is always twisted one way or another.

I mean, in your wall of text, there isn't a single line that isn't TMO hating, and I won't spend the time quoting and making a counter argument for everything you said. You, as in IB, have broken as many rules as we have. You are not objective, and speaking to you would probably prove as useful as dealing with Swarws. If you were actually not so biased and bashing, I would take that time, out of here. But despite what you say, you are trolling even more than I am.

There is one point I agree on, that is VD is capable of killing anything they want, and we are fully aware of it. We know we will have to compete and that we will lose some juicy targets. We've always done so, against you, and now against you and VD.

My point is, they are not acting as a third party, just an extention of IB. They chose to only raid agaisnt us hence why they are where they are now (which isn't so bad, quit the qq'ing). You on the other hand, can have your uncontested VP and Trak rounds as competing adults amirite, and keep feeding VD with loots and some more anti-TMO feelings. Mostly simply because they've never experienced raiding against you and probably will never chose to (you are the great p99 white knigths afterall, nothing like TR). Until they do that, don't expect us to give them the respect they'd rightfully deserve if they fought their way up by themselves.

I can't believe I'm being drawn into the RnF whirlpool but you seem to be a smart guy. I totally understand this point of view too, that VD/IB looks like 1 megaguild (similar to DA/TMO premerger perhaps), and that VD generally speaking hasn't raced to targets successfully (we can kill them, but our mobilization is somewhat slower).

Here is my question: how do you guys expect to get more raid mobs without a rotation? If a TMO Trakanon spawns every 6 days and is in window for 18 hours on average, that means your mains are going to be stuck on poop mountain 15% of the time. It's hard to imagine that you are going to beat IB/VD to mobs like Gore, Tal, Sev, Cazic, Inny, Maestro, or Draco without your mains (I know Faz has 3+ max toons but not everyone in your guild does). So if we assume you beat VD 9/10 on Trak you're going to get 45% of Trakanons instead of 33%, which you guys are getting 1 extra Trak every 8 weeks in exchange for losing 1 raid target every week with your mains camped out.

Even if we assume that you guys just LOVE camping your mains out on poop mountain, it still seems like you're coming out behind just on pure quantity of loot. And if you are trying to keep us out of VP, it's basically too late. We're up to like 30 keyed members and could already probably kill some of the easier dragons. So regardless of how you feel about VD as a guild, breaking the rotation just doesn't make sense to me.

[quido]

Let's see how long IB's Trakanons remain uncontested while ours are being contested =)