Top Aggro Weapons Discussion

[Peppermintt]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hrmm... interesting. Could've sworn I'd read and heard that it was pretty easy to hold aggro with 2 wurmslayers or other good DPS weapons...

I've got a warrior ~ lvl 40 right now and I can tell you this isn't true. Monks/rogs/bard/slower will still pull aggro constantly. I end up spamming taunt hoping it works. And that's with a haste item. I'm sure it'll only get worse as I get higher in level.

2x SSoYs is better. Without a proc, I'm playing the same spam game outlined above. Once a proc goes off I can /afk cuz I know I'm not losing aggro. I plan on upgrading to 2x clubs soon.

[fishingme]

Warrior aggro is all about procs, I'ved use a good portion of weapons listed above. I currently have sarnak warhammer + silken whip of ensaring. I've gone up against aggro with warriors lower level than i and they have won im thinking it was due to them having yak clubs. I'm thinking about making the switch

[Treats]

I sent this to Kanras back in August when I was messing around trying to figure this out.

As close as I got to the actual formula being used from the parses on SteelWarrior and Evilgamer.

Hate cap on initial aggro was fixed awhile back.

Original thread here with the links:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...ate+generation

Melee Hate Generation

I've run tons of calculations through the numbers in this thread:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...ate+generation

This is what I've come up with. It seems on P99 there is no Cap on initial aggro. Heres an example of how it worked on live:

Duoing in Karnors basement (Shaman and Monk)
Shaman goes to pull, stays out of aggro range
Casts slow runs back to Monk
Monk attacks once or twice and has aggro because of initial hate cap (as long as the slow was first aggro -- would not work if the mob aggroed and was running toward the shaman as the slow would count the full amount of hate)

Using an initial aggro cap of 50-75 hate this is what I got for everything listed in that huge post (weapon damage being the amount listed on the weapon, not what it actually hits for). Also each swing whether hit or miss uses the same calculation:

(Weap Damage + Damage Bonus) * 0.725 = One Hand Hate
(Weap Damage + Damage Bonus) * 1.1225 = Two Hand Hate

Probably not exactly how it was calculated back then but it's gotta be pretty darn close.

[Noselacri]

This is my knowledge from back in the day and I can't really say how applicable all of it is here, but I know most of it is still true:

- Melee aggro is determined by the raw damage stat on your weapon so that when you swing, you generate an amount of aggro determined by the damage of your weapon, not the damage you end up dealing. You generate the same amount whether you hit or miss, and extra damage from strength doesn't make a difference.

- Faster weapons do not inherently generate more aggro, but many of the best weapons happen to be in the faster end. It's also easier to lose aggro between swings if you swing every three seconds compared to twice a second, even if you generate the same amount of "threat per second." This led to the illusion that faster weapons were better when in reality they just produce a more even level of aggro instead of spiky aggro. Over the course of a fight, it's the same if the weapons have comparable ratios.

- Assuming an appropriately geared warrior and not someone with shit weapons or absolute endgame gear, melee DPS accounts for roughly 60-70% of your aggro if you have appropriate proc weapons. The procs are what put you ahead of actual DPS classes (hopefully). You can't really tank consistently with weapons that don't proc, but some people remember fairy-tales of how they held aggro with lammies or jade maces when the fact is that they were simply grouped with DPS that had worse weapons and thus allowed the warrior to hold aggro by simply doing better DPS.

- You don't want just any proc. It has to have some high-aggro component, usually a stun and sometimes a simple '+x aggro' gain (think Enraging Blow). A straight damage or DoT proc won't generate very much aggro unless it deals so much damage that the amount of damage itself is significant aggro, but that's rarely the case for warrior weapons. Bloodpoints aren't good tank weapons, for instance, because they just proc a 45pt lifetap which generates the same amount of threat as any other nuke for 45 damage, i.e not much.


Aggro/taunt works like this:

Whoever is the first to enter a mob's aggro list will be the initial target of that mob. To overtake whoever currently has aggro, you need to then have some amount of aggro above that player before the mob will switch targets. This is why being the first to aggro a mob is a good thing if you want to tank it and a bad thing if you don't. I don't know how much more aggro you actually need to overtake the current tank, but I would estimate that it's something like 20% more.

Let's say Bob the Warrior pulls a mob and hits it a few times. He now has 100 aggro.

Joe the Rogue commences stabbing the mob and does more DPS than the warrior, putting him at 110 aggro.

The mob is still on Bob because it would take 120 aggro for it to change targets. Once it does so, however, that player is in trouble because Bob then has to generate a great deal of extra aggro to get the mob back. If Jill the Wizard drops a big nuke and ends up at 150 aggro, Bob would have to get up to 180 before the mob would turn back on him. If Joe doesn't stop DPSing in the meantime, he'll arrive there before and the mob will hit him instead. This is why, when the tank loses aggro, the mob will typically go through several targets who were above the warrior on the aggro list before he can get it back. The guy who takes aggro doesn't just get himself killed, he might get the entire cleric line mowed down as well.

Fortunately, Bob can taunt the mob. If he succeeds, he is placed 1 point of aggro above whoever is at the top of the list, and the mob forcibly changes target to Bob. It circumvents the mechanic that would normally require him to get 20% more aggro than the current holder and simply makes the mob target him no matter what, but he still has only 1 point more than Jill so she better not keep nuking or history will repeat itself.

So, over the course of a long fight, the warrior's proc weapons will generally ensure that he maintains a level of aggro that's high enough to prevent the DPS from taking aggro, but it's difficult in the beginning of the fight because it takes so little to turn the mob. Once the aggro numbers are in the tens of thousands, nobody can take aggro with a big nuke or something because there's a very large buffer, they'd have to keep building aggro ahead of the warrior for a while before they'd surpass 120%.

[Teddie1056]

Trochillic Skean has been great in the offhand so far.

Just wondering, what would be better for off hand, RMoY of TSkean, because the initial post has TSkean as the number 3 and RMoY unrated.

[bizzum]

Originally Posted by Teddie1056 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Trochillic Skean has been great in the offhand so far.

Just wondering, what would be better for off hand, RMoY of TSkean, because the initial post has TSkean as the number 3 and RMoY unrated.

Personally think RMoY is better, the Skean doesn't have great snap aggro like the mace tends to.

[Asher]

How does the Warding Star factor in? I know that Guard causes agro, AE agro I have heard.

Is the agro still generated if people in the group have a higher level version of the buff that makes guard bounce?

Assuming no one in the group has any other AC buff do you get agro per person in the group that it landed on for every mob in range?

I am playing my first tank so forgive me if these questions are stupid. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Asher

[Barrier]

This is a good discussion but what about weapons for aggro from 1-30 or so? These are mostly about 40+.

[bizzum]

Originally Posted by Barrier [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a good discussion but what about weapons for aggro from 1-30 or so? These are mostly about 40+.

A cheapie but a good one is Smoldering brand - procs from level 1 with a DD so its decent aggro at lower levels.

[Barrier]

What about Obsidian Shard? Any good? I know it procs at 16 but for 16-30 or so?