Resist Feedback post 11/6/2011

[Lovely]

Also saying that people should have to Tash/Malo someone to be able to CC them is beyond retarded. The odds of people having access to resist buffs in PVP is like 90%+ especially for melee. No fkin melee runs around alone without a duo partner or a group.

But people having access to tash/malo on the other hand is way way lower and it's something you have to land in the fight, then after you land that you gotta try to hit the CC spells as well. Just simply running away prevents both of those things..

But personally I don't rly care to much if CC spells hit good or bad at 100-130 MR. But for the love of god please please don't raise the % values to much from 100-130 to like 150-200+ cause then the groups with bards will be totally unkillable just like it's been in the past. They already have advantage enough with the superior things a Bard bring like speed, cc, resists etc. Just don't make them godmode... Cause anyone will reach 150-200+ with a buffs/bard.

Like the serverwide Test of Tactics 18v18, all 3 groups in each team had a Bard, all groups had access to malo/tash and every debuff in the game. Yet it was almost impossible to kill anyone even if you had a fkin 18 man assist train on 1 guy with all debuffs. Most fights was around 20 minutes inside the Arena and there was between 0 to 3 deaths on average in those 20 minutes. The pvp was basically 36 people running around in circles in godmode status. So if the 18 best people on the server with access to every spell and debuff barely can kill 1 guy. Imagine how unkillable a group of 6 with a bard with decent gear will be here if resists get out of hand like they always have before.

This is also what the big guilds want cause they are mostly made of zergs and baddies who rely on being in godmode status to kill anyone.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Originally Posted by Lovely [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With the ways resists keep getting stronger and stronger I should be able to reach godmode status within 2-3 weeks of the launch.

Oh really? Because if you resist crowd control spells but then get almost 1 shot killed by ice comet, that's God mode? That's sure news to me. Just stop posting now ya jackass. Crowd control spells resisted on EQ live because the devs were smarter than you are

"God mode" would be if you can easily kill an infinite number of people, not being able to run away from a zerg of idiots attempting to chain CC spam you for a free kill, while casting nukes that do 70% of your HP bar, and land for full every time.

That's not Everquest, that's Idiotquest. I'm not playing that bullshit. All the actual good players from EQ live that I've talked to feel the exact same way as me about CC spells. From Crazycloud, to Darwoth, to everyone in between.

It's always these nobodies like Lovely that keep telling Null how great an idea this is, while all the actual people with any PvP credentials from EQ live tell how him awful it is. Everyone knows it's not balanced unless your goal is to make a "forced zerging" server and make it impossible to solo.

Originally Posted by Lovely [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyway you have to balance the resist system around buffs and bard songs as well Null. Otherwise people will run around in godmode when they have these buffs.

You say the stupidest shit.

First of all, EQ live was not a forced grouping game. The majority of people I saw on Sullon Zek solo PvP'd. If you remove the ability to solo, it's not Everquest, period. We're not here to play Lovely's stupid, unbalanced version of EQ.

Second of all, Null put the best item in every slot for a monk and only had 40CR/59FR. Calling getting nuked for maximum, 900 damage by every ice comet cast on you "God mode" just makes you look more stupid than words can imagine.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Originally Posted by Lovely [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also saying that people should have to Tash/Malo someone to be able to CC them is beyond retarded. The odds of people having access to resist buffs in PVP is like 90%+ especially for melee. No fkin melee runs around alone without a duo partner or a group.

Another idiotic quote from someone who's never played on a PvP server. Probably the majority of people I saw on Sullon Zek, including myself, solo PvP'd during Velious era. Occasionally you saw caster duos like Dharma and Greg or 2 Darkenbanes but that's it.

Your statement about everyone being "perma-grouped" was completely fictional and made up. Don't post about what PvP balance is when you've never even played on a PvP server. I'm not playing on some bullshit "forced grouping" or "forced zerging" server when soloing is viable in real EQ.

Originally Posted by Lovely [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like the serverwide Test of Tactics 18v18, all 3 groups in each team had a Bard, all groups had access to malo/tash and every debuff in the game. Yet it was almost impossible to kill anyone

Here you go with your stupid Test of Tactics story again. Guess what? I was in Test of Tactics too, you're not special. I also played on an actual PvP server, you didn't.

On a real, pre-PoP, PvP server, not the imaginary server in your head, the amount of bards is so low, that designing the entire resist system specificaly around bards is about the dumbest thing you can possibly do.

There was only maybe 2 level 60 bards on the entire evil team pre-luclin (Rodlase and Pino) and like 1 on neuts (Agrul). I don't think the entire good team even had a bard except level 5 Fansy.

Trying to claim bards are some enormous PvP factor on a pre-luclin PvP server just makes you look more stupid than words can describe. Even if they show up, WHO CARES, Null already made the direct damage system so nukes always land on them.

I'm tired of seeing all these stupid changes to destroy PvP solely in the name of bards, a class that maybe 1% of the population or less plays.

[Dfn]

Originally Posted by Nuk3Afr1ca [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not all classes get resist buffs and EQ live PvP was not a forced grouping game. There's 0 reason to assume everyone has those buffs 24/7. In fact, the vast majority of people I saw PvP'ing on Sullon Zek during Velious era were soloing or duoing whether they were a melee or caster.

You're right. Only 1/3 of the classes can buff MR on others. And a lot of the remaining can buff it self-only. You don't have to assume they have the buff 24/7 either. You do have to account for the buffs instead of just pretending they don't exist.

Originally Posted by Nuk3Afr1ca [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh really? Last time I checked, that's not how EQ live PvP worked at all. You don't get to alter the game and make soloing go from viable to impossible just because you think it would be cool idea. Fuck off with that shit. People are here to play normal EQ, not your horribly balanced version of it.

What the fuck are you talking about? Monks were never viable solo PKs in classic. Neither were warriors. Or rogues. And rangers and paladins were pretty damn low on the totem pole as well.

In fact, the closest thing you could get to "solo'ing" was sitting at the entrance of a dungeon and attacking people when they zoned in - and promptly running around a corner when they tried to cast. You have no burst damage. You have no escape mechanism. You have no movement speed. And you want to be a viable outdoors solo pk? While you're at it, ask for those VZTZ tweaks that made warriors crippling blow insta gib everyone.

Originally Posted by Nuk3Afr1ca [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, actually, crowd control resists were balanced fine on EQ live. You don't get to say "I think CC spells should land" then provide no justification for it. And guess what? When one ice comet does 70% of a monk's HP bar, and one ebolt does 89%, there is no fucking justification for it. It's casters paradise even if CC spells resist 100% of the time.

Oh, ice comet and ebolt only affect monks? -1 to reasoning.

Ice Comet and EBolt equally affects everyone - yes, even other wizards will be nearly one shot by an ebolt. But hey, guess what, it was like that on live. It's pretty obvious you never played classic EQ - you're wanting to just jump into this luclin era bullshit where any random retard can be completely immune to all spells just by reaching level 50 and buying a few tradeable pieces. That's not how the game worked in classic though.

Originally Posted by Nuk3Afr1ca [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Man up and stop being a douchebag trying to get your class upgraded when it's already powerful enough. I used to kill planes geared warriors with my naked shaman mule on VZTZ, did the same thing with a naked druid against rogues. If CC didn't land at all, I still could have done the same thing. VZTZ PvP was a complete joke, that's why I'm not playing on this server if it's anywhere similar.

My class? Do you know what class I'm playing? Because I haven't even decided yet. You keep talking as if the resist system on VZTZ made it a caster heaven, but it's pretty obvious you never played because of how much damage melee's actually did in PvP. Sure, casters could compete - but they should rape in classic. Melee should be catching up in Kunark.

You, on the other hand, are arguing for monks and rogues to be self-sufficient immune to CC pks by the time they hit 50. Lol?

But since we're talking about classes. Any guess what class you're going to play?

-Bitches about caster damage, check.
-Bitches about not being completely immune to CC 3 weeks into the game, check.
-Bitches about snare, blind, whirl, root, earth pet root, etc EVER landing at 50, check.
-Cries about caster's being overpowered on VZTZ, check.

Actually I have no idea. I would say a masochist rogue but since you're crying about melee's being underpowered on VZTZ that would only make sense if you were using two splintering clubs or some shit on a rogue.

Originally Posted by Nuk3Afr1ca [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I remember one time, my naked shaman mule was standing in Rivervale and I tabbed over and see Lethdar attacking me with his troll SK named Allah that has the best items in the game. I was deleveled and didn't even have ebolt and he STILL couldn't kill me. It basically ended in a draw and I'm naked with no gear on. He did manage to knock me unconscious with HT, but I stood back up and recovered.

I repeat, VZTZ PvP was terrible, horribly unbalanced, and worse than EQ live in every way. The game mechanics were a complete clown fest. I refuse to play on a server where it's easier to gank people with a naked caster than a melee with the best items in the game.

Well, you're obviously terrible and have no concept of classic EQ or VZTZ. Being able to land roots on VZTZ didn't make it a caster server by any stretch of the imagination.

I remember one time Rexx double crippling blowed me for like 1800 damage. Good thing all these memories matter in balancing a server trying to emulate live classic!

Originally Posted by Nuk3Afr1ca [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This DFN guy keeps talking about "grouping", he's clearly one of those idiots that thinks "PvP" is walking around in a giant group of people and attacking solo players and wants the game to be as easy as possible for him to get free, welfare kills.

My bad. I forgot, monks and rogues are supposed to be self-sufficient solo PKs starting at birth. Are you retarded? Another terrible talking on the forums because he's just a walking screenshot in game....

Originally Posted by Nuk3Afr1ca [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even Lumie, who is mentally insane, was smart enough to know it's not worth playing on another VZTZ rehash. He posted he's not playing with VZTZ crowd control resists either. That halfling named Alecta in Holocaust also quit due to it. It will drive off lots of people. I know at least 5 people who won't play due to it alone.

There's going to be people not playing for many different reasons. Quoting Lumie only hurts what little credibility you had left.

Now, I don't disagree with you that melee should be nearly CC immune - but your timetable is way fucked up out of whack. This is something melee's should be striving to reach in Kunark. Don't like it? Find a group.

[DarthPeon]

Originally Posted by Nuk3Afr1ca [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not all classes get resist buffs and EQ live PvP was not a forced grouping game. There's 0 reason to assume everyone has those buffs 24/7. In fact, the vast majority of people I saw PvP'ing on Sullon Zek during Velious era were soloing or duoing whether they were a melee or caster.

Your perspective is flawed for several reasons. EQ was designed as a forced grouping game and Brad Mcquaid's vocal stance on the issue was no secret.

Since everquest was designed back then as a pve game first and foremost with the pvp servers as an added bonus for variety it would be unwise to think that solo pvp would be as viable as group pvp. Just as pve encounters are designed to be best dealt with the efficient use of group mechanics, by extension pvp encounters are as well in classic everquest when you combine multiple class abilities and spells working together. Just because you solo pvped and the cesspool that was Sullon Zek attracted that mindset does not mean we should not fix the inherent flaws group pvp produces with increased resists and god-mode squads which original EQ development never gave a shit about.

So since here they are essentially designing a standalone classic-esque pvp server with longevity in mind, changes that were never considered by the original everquest devs should be made - Like keeping the resist threshold high and considering full buffs group pvp. Think of it as everquest pvp done right for 2011 knowledge and mindset.

The next issue with your line of thinking stems wholly from the fact that your attitude is shit, and people cannot stand you. You know this and you cannot stand people as well Wehrmacht. Thus you are in need of a viable solo experience. Fortunately there are still classes you can play that meet those needs in this group oriented game. Unfortunately for you, you intend on playing a ranger and don't want to get shit on under the proposed parameters.

My suggestion is to raise stun resists in line with the current root and snare resists and leave things be at the current new levels. It's best to have a higher custom threshold because original everquest never gave much consideration to pvp servers and group pvp in designing spells, items, resists and encounters. You will encounter more group pvp than your previous classic experience as evident from the many premade guilds posting here. We should continue to test changes at the highest group thresholds and make adjustments where needed.

Null, you are are doing a fantastic job.

[Nirgon]

Make it like it was imo, if something's so powerful, play it. You're right, you don't have to be clueless like 12 years ago.

[Nirgon]

Root just wasn't something you used on things other than pets after like lvl 40, maybe even 30.

A different example:
The mage epic pet was notoriously hard to root and might be one of the most ridiculous things indoors. Am I going to post about nerfing it? No. If it's already strong but too easy to root, yeah, I'm going to post that it needs to be harder to root. People are going to go wild about something like that, tell me its OP and I have no idea what I'm talking about. Whateva.

[Nirgon]

Still don't see why any of this is debatable or we're trying to consider "balance" in all this. We came for classic pvp, that's what we should have.

[Rallyd]

I read this shit and the only thing that comes to mind is, how many of you played on Sullon Zek.. Cuz claiming to be a professional pvper when coming from Sullon Zek is like claiming to be an olympic gold medalist from the special olympics.. that server was a joke, if you're not from RZ/VZ/TZ stfu.

95% resistance to snare/root/stun IE the cripplers, in my experience on RZ, wasn't even possible, the system null has in place now is good, 85% at 150 MR sounds about right. That's still a shot in the dark for you to actually get rooted. And those of us who will be carrying around pocket bards can expect to not ever get hit by CC, and if we do.. it's classic, learn to pell.

[Nuk3Afr1ca]

Originally Posted by Rallyd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

95% resistance to snare/root/stun IE the cripplers, in my experience on RZ, wasn't even possible

These threads are always zerged by noobs that don't know what they're talking about. Here's a safehouse thread where someone parsed 87% resistance to CC spells with 150MR AFTER magic resist was changed during LUCLIN. Obviously CC spells resisted even more before this change:

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...ead.php?t=7879

Making a classic EQ server have CC spells land EASIER than LUCLIN era when VT gear was available is absolutely, beyond retarded.