Game Mechanics: Nullify Magic

[Palemoon]

Originally Posted by Dfn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe they were a -200 resist modifier. So as I said, for all intents and purposes - unresistable. I can't remember ever resisting or getting resisted on Necro taps, blood line, druid swarm, etc. They were not unresistable as they did resist on some mobs in PvE - but they had a significant negative resist modifier that made VIRTUALLY unresistable in PvP. I'm sure a fluke chance resist happened from time to time, but it was not commonplace at all.

Pillage/Nullify/Etc should not have a resist mechanic attached to it at all for PvP because, afaik, it acts as a beneficial spell.

And for all you fuckers that keep saying "get me proof" well how about you get me proof that people regularly resisted swarm, heat blood, nec taps, etc. Good luck dipshits.

Get proof please, beyond laughably wrong statements like "heat blood is unresistable"

[Bockscar]

From Filash's rogue PvP guide (link) anno Velious:

a Golem Wand fully expended will cancel 15 slots

Suggests that there was no variance in the number of dispelled slots, and no chance to resist.

[Cwall]

golem wand has 5 charges of pillage enchantment
pillage enchantment dispels 4 slots
you can only have 15 buffs/debuffs on at a time, which is why that's the max it can dispel on one person(technically you only need 4 charges to achieve this)

[Bockscar]

I believe golem wands used to have their own effect before they were given Pillage Enchantment and a cast time.

What it does do.

Quote
Reply
#Apr 17 2001 at 12:25 PMRating: Default

Logan
Scholar

58 posts
Check Golem Metal Bits for info on the spell.
____________________________

Edit: upon further research, that may be incorrect.

[Harrison]

Heat blood and swarm/crud line unresistable...still loling

Taps are -200

There is no difference in pvp or pve mods until a patch LONG after classic.

[Dfn]

Originally Posted by Palemoon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Get proof please, beyond laughably wrong statements like "heat blood is unresistable"

Originally Posted by Harrison [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Heat blood and swarm/crud line unresistable...still loling

I do believe I said "all intents and purposes unresistable" - meaning that barring extraordinary circumstances the spells are "virtually unresistable" - another statement I made.

Now - you get proof that heat blood and swarm line were regularly resisted. We realize you two idiots don't know jack shit about classic pvp, but try and at least read posts thoroughly before posting garbage that makes you look even dumber.

[Bockscar]

Either way, the point is that we apparently cannot find a classic source that says dispels were resistable. Meanwhile, pretty much everyone remembers that they weren't, and an old-school PvP guide specifically states that five charges of golem wand will dispel 15 buffs. Any references to individual buffs resisting and causing the dispel to skip are from the mid/late-2000s. Conversely, it was a classic fact of life that two clickies made you immune to the commonly used dispel (only enchanters could dispel more than two slots at once) which would not have been the case if dispels would regularly skip the first and proceed to the next buffs. In fact, that would make the "weaker" dispels better as they would be able to dispel buried buffs. The only thing that in any way suggests that this was the case is that Annul and Nullify both have the same number of applications of cancel magic, but against all the contrary evidence, the weight of this sole fact is questionable. It might have been part of a later change that made it possible for buffs to resist dispels and cause the skip. This would explain why it seems that any reference we can find to buffs resisting/skipping dispels is from like 2003 and later. There are no references at all to outright resisting the spell itself, and as far as I can tell, that phenomenon is unheard of outside of this server.

To shed some light on this, we should try to find two things:

1) the classic (1999/2000) raw spell data for one or all of the dispel spells to determine whether it even said anything about "Cancel Magic (4)" and such.

2) any reference from that time period that mentions buff-skipping or failure to dispel the listed number of applications of cancel magic.

It should be clear that dispels should not be literally resistable, as in the "Your target resisted the Nullify Magic spell." Dispels aren't even meant to be detrimental spells, so that resist check should never occur. The question is whether the skipping thing is classic. The odd thing is that none of the dispel spells appear to have any Allakhazam comments prior to 2003.

[Cwall]

from allakhazam page about steel golem
http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=296
dated Nov 06 2000 at 3:05 PM

Pillage Enchantment removes a spell or spell like effect. It's the same as the other dispell magic effects with a greater chance to remove the effect. I've been hunting treants lately and we've used it to dispell the treants' CC DoT. It also removes our buffs, requiring (sometimes) multiple castings of it.

My own 2cp.

Elkantar Draganov
Enchanter of the 24th circle

for what it's worth
it's unclear as to whether or not he meant that the spell gets resisted or it requires several casts to remove all buffs including the DoT(maybe the DoT was buried under his buffs?)

edit: more info
allakhazam golem metal wand page
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=3644
dated Jan 21 2002 at 9:19 PM

This wand is a wonderful dueling item. It is easily obtained, instant-casting and useable by everyone. I believe the effect on this wand strips off the first 4 buffs you have on. I also believe it is unresistable.

edit 2: even more info
this thread from january 2001 has some more anecdotal information regarding dispels
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2133

[jilena]

Copied from my other thread:

I tried testing this out. I levelled an enchanter to 12 and played around casting taper enchantment, and cancel magic onto my 50 troll shaman, and casting nullify magic from my shaman onto my enchanter. Even buffed with resist magic to 65 MR I did not get a single resist with either spell on my shaman or the reverse. Can someone who is getting resists confirm any level difference and possibly what MR was in effect on the person you were casting on?

[Bockscar]

Originally Posted by Cwall [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

from allakhazam page about steel golem
http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=296
dated Nov 06 2000 at 3:05 PM



for what it's worth
it's unclear as to whether or not he meant that the spell gets resisted or it requires several casts to remove all buffs including the DoT(maybe the DoT was buried under his buffs?)

edit: more info
allakhazam golem metal wand page
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=3644
dated Jan 21 2002 at 9:19 PM



edit 2: even more info
this thread from january 2001 has some more anecdotal information regarding dispels
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2133

Good info. It's still a little conflicting, but we're getting somewhere.

Question: if that's how dispels worked, why was two insta-clickies such a staple in PvP and basically required in order to compete at the top? And why the seemingly universal belief that dispels always targeted the first buffs?

My memory tells me that's how it was, but it's very possible that I just can't remember what the hell was going on ten years ago. Anyone feel like digging through patch notes? I don't have time right now, might do it tomorrow if nobody has by then.