Raiding on P1999

[Bubbles]

I actually disagree with Giegue's assumption that TMO/TR would welcome more 'competition'. That said, i think he's spot on that any form of a compromise at all needs to leave all parties walking away from the table feeling they gained something for what they 'gave up'.

So what would TMO/TR stand to gain by giving in even the slightest?

Outside of Veeshan's Peak, i can't come up with anything. And i'm not thinking the powers that be are seriously going to make it come down to that.

Things are bad, they are going to get worse with epics, and we'll see how it shakes out.

My stance has never wavered. -> A second server is needed. Red99 is an option. Putting Beta back up is an option. Splitting p99 into two servers is an option (and completely, utterly classic), and just tossing up a new server from scratch starting at level one with either classic only progression or kunark enabled from day one.. is also an option.

Server split is the most interesting, would be interesting to see if TMO + TR would go one way with casual who don't care about raiding.. and Taken/Div/BDA/VD/Reclamation/etc would all dogpile the other direction.. Or if TR would go one way with TMO / BDA and TR would go the other with VD/ Div etc.. or some random swapping alike.. or whatever. Would make for some interesting forum banter, regardless.

But no matter what, A split would give us everything the player base needs : twice the targets, period. It's a high-end heavy server and the player base has little in common with the demographics and skill capability a typical server in 1999 had. This probably has been beaten to death, but it's the most valid of points.

The bottleneck of course is, we barely have the staff for one server, much less a surplus that would lend itself to having 2 servers at the same time running flawlessly.. No matter what the forum trolls think, the majority of the CSR job on p99 isn't solving dragon disputes, it's dealing with the normal day-to-day petitions and box-hunting, etc..

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by Bubbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's a high-end heavy server and the player base has little in common with the demographics and skill capability a typical server in 1999 had. This probably has been beaten to death, but it's the most valid of points.

It hasn't been beaten enough, imho. The horse is alive and kicking.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Bubbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Server split is the most interesting, would be interesting to see if TMO + TR would go one way with casual who don't care about raiding.. and Taken/Div/BDA/VD/Reclamation/etc would all dogpile the other direction.. Or if TR would go one way with TMO / BDA and TR would go the other with VD/ Div etc.. or some random swapping alike.. or whatever. Would make for some interesting forum banter, regardless.

Since the high-end game is not really about competition (i.e. each time they get actual competition, they merge to strengthen their numbers or they rules-lawyer everything to their favor instead of actually competing) and more about "who can get the most pixels", each uber raid guild will do precisely what it takes to ensure themselves the most pixels... find out which server the other is going to, and go to the opposite one.

Why burn themselves out fighting over raid targets when they can each have one of the two hypothetical servers to themselves, when no other raid guild has demonstrated the desire to "show devotion" at their level? Then we're right back where we started... two servers each with one hardcore raid guild Taking Things a Little Too Seriously (tm), and then the casual/semi-casuals who aren't willing to sacrifice real life for a video game, still being cut out of the endgame.

Server split only works if the hardcore go to one server and compete against each other, which they have been clamoring "makes EQ fun" for them. But I don't think they want actual competition... they try to snuff it out as soon as it emerges.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Since the high-end game is not really about competition (i.e. each time they get actual competition, they merge to strengthen their numbers or they rules-lawyer everything to their favor instead of actually competing) and more about "who can get the most pixels", each uber raid guild will do precisely what it takes to ensure themselves the most pixels... find out which server the other is going to, and go to the opposite one.

Why burn themselves out fighting over raid targets when they can each have one of the two hypothetical servers to themselves, when no other raid guild has demonstrated the desire to "show devotion" at their level? Then we're right back where we started... two servers each with one hardcore raid guild Taking Things a Little Too Seriously (tm), and then the casual/semi-casuals who aren't willing to sacrifice real life for a video game, still being cut out of the endgame.

Server split only works if the hardcore go to one server and compete against each other, which they have been clamoring "makes EQ fun" for them. But I don't think they want actual competition... they try to snuff it out as soon as it emerges.

If you don't try to destroy your competition, then they aren't really competition.

Google it and you will find.

competitor - the contestant you hope to defeat.

Every guild on the server has the chance to snag any dragon/god on the server (except maybe Trakanon). Trak is a poop fest when he comes around, and that's much because he is the main key to cockblocking VP for other guilds. Whenever Trak is in window, the other guilds have a significantly greater chance at grabbing raid targets.

Want to fix the current raid scene and make it more interesting? Make it so that when Trakanon is in window, all other raid targets that happen to be in window have a increased chance to spawn.

I think the only thing that should be rotated is VP and that is mainly to combat the stupid shit that will happen in there if both guilds are racing. It will be a clusterfuck that will only end up with people getting banned (be it because of something intentional or not) and causing the GMs to get even more frustrated.

least that's how I see it playing out.

[Mcbard]

Originally Posted by Bubbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I actually disagree with Giegue's assumption that TMO/TR would welcome more 'competition'. That said, i think he's spot on that any form of a compromise at all needs to leave all parties walking away from the table feeling they gained something for what they 'gave up'.

So what would TMO/TR stand to gain by giving in even the slightest?

Outside of Veeshan's Peak, i can't come up with anything. And i'm not thinking the powers that be are seriously going to make it come down to that.

Things are bad, they are going to get worse with epics, and we'll see how it shakes out.

My stance has never wavered. -> A second server is needed. Red99 is an option. Putting Beta back up is an option. Splitting p99 into two servers is an option (and completely, utterly classic), and just tossing up a new server from scratch starting at level one with either classic only progression or kunark enabled from day one.. is also an option.

Server split is the most interesting, would be interesting to see if TMO + TR would go one way with casual who don't care about raiding.. and Taken/Div/BDA/VD/Reclamation/etc would all dogpile the other direction.. Or if TR would go one way with TMO / BDA and TR would go the other with VD/ Div etc.. or some random swapping alike.. or whatever. Would make for some interesting forum banter, regardless.

But no matter what, A split would give us everything the player base needs : twice the targets, period. It's a high-end heavy server and the player base has little in common with the demographics and skill capability a typical server in 1999 had. This probably has been beaten to death, but it's the most valid of points.

The bottleneck of course is, we barely have the staff for one server, much less a surplus that would lend itself to having 2 servers at the same time running flawlessly.. No matter what the forum trolls think, the majority of the CSR job on p99 isn't solving dragon disputes, it's dealing with the normal day-to-day petitions and box-hunting, etc..

We only have about 700 people on the server at any given time. What would a server split accomplish? Either one of the current top guilds could easily (moreover be 100% willing to) lock down all bosses 24/7. Instead of having one of these threads about this server every couple of days, we'll have 2 of them, one for each server. I don't see how it changes anything except halve the population and send it in 2 different directions. Does the fact there will only initially be one guild on top on each server somehow encourage the people wanting a rotation to step up and start socking?

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Mcbard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We only have about 700 people on the server at any given time. What would a server split accomplish? Either one of the current top guilds could easily (moreover be 100% willing to) lock down all bosses 24/7. Instead of having one of these threads about this server every couple of days, we'll have 2 of them, one for each server. I don't see how it changes anything except halve the population and send it in 2 different directions. Does the fact there will only initially be one guild on top on each server somehow encourage the people wanting a rotation to step up and start socking?

/giggle.

See, there you have it folks. If given the choice, TMO and TR would run screaming from one another to different servers to 'welcome competition'.

/facepalm.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Bubbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I actually disagree with Giegue's assumption that TMO/TR would welcome more 'competition'. ...

Even if you believe that, some TR/TMO members have said the variance should be reduced*, so they can't be that afraid of competition. I don't really have an opinion on the server split idea except that it's kind of radical, and whatever solution we come up with should be easy to implement and likely to be accepted by a large number of people. Obviously a lot of people would be against a server split, whereas not a lot of people would really object to the windows being shortened. It would still be nice to know how long the windows were in classic (if they existed at all - again I've only heard conflicting information on this). If someone had access to that sort of information, that would be a good start.

*(reduced, not removed entirely, just to be clear)

[anthony210]

Doing a server split is a radical idea that I don't think would be healthy for the community. We simply do not have the population for two servers. Maybe at some point in the future we will, but who knows.

Having all the raid bosses have an increased chance of spawning when Trakanon is in window is an interesting idea, one that might be worth testing out for a bit.

[Ulivar]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am curious:

-with lev 52 restriction on dragons, how do 53+ people suppose to LEGALLY obtain their epic drops??? Like seriously, WTF Verant was thinking?

they are supposed to kill kunark dragons, gore/tal etc

[Kika Maslyaka]

opps, somehow I thought that book only drops off Vox. NM then [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]