Bob's Perfect World- A wall of text regarding the raid scene on P99 - Page 11

Skope · #1 09-07-2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doors [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If these fucking nerds would stop caring so much about pixels and besting random person A from guild B raiding on this server probably wouldn't be as shitty.

Doors, remember that the more time i sit /afk and the shinier pixels = i'm better at everquest than you.

If you replace the word everquest with p99 then it's probably true. And quite sad, actually. haha

Mcbard · #2 09-08-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The thing is, it would make sense for the top guilds to agree to a rotation because they'd get more mobs per minute that they spend playing the game, and would probably have more time to enjoy the game, level their alts, or just go outside.

What makes you think I want to do anything in this game besides kill dragons? Unless of course it's a naggy/vox alt I'm making.. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With a rotation I'm killing a whole lot less # of dragons every week. Me and most people who are used to raiding almost every night for dragons would probably just quit. Leveling alts isn't really what I've ever played EQ for.

Lazortag · #3 09-08-2011, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcbard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What makes you think I want to do anything in this game besides kill dragons? Unless of course it's a naggy/vox alt I'm making.. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With a rotation I'm killing a whole lot less # of dragons every week. Me and most people who are used to raiding almost every night for dragons would probably just quit. Leveling alts isn't really what I've ever played EQ for.

Wouldn't you rather kill more bosses for the time you spend though? I mean really, would you rather spend an hour to kill one boss, or a day to kill two? Is it really your idea of "fun" to track a raid mob for two days in a row, or to poopsock a dragon's spawn point? The amount of time that's spent doing the aforementioned things on this server is about a hundred times more than any guild had to do in classic. I'm saying that the cost to being a high end raider on p99 is unfair for anyone with a life outside of EQ, so why is it relevant to the question of its fairness that you would get less dragons if you agreed to a rotation?

The people who would quit because they don't get to play the version of EQ that you seem to like are obviously in the minority. That version of EQ was invented on this server, it was never a requirement in classic, so I doubt there's a significant number of players who would be really bummed out if raid mobs didn't have absurdly long windows. It's clearly more in the server's interest to make the game less of a time commitment (provided it's classically accurate), so don't act like there'd be some huge exodus of players who are disappointed that they can't poopsock anymore.

Mcbard · #4 09-08-2011, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wouldn't you rather kill more bosses for the time you spend though? I mean really, would you rather spend an hour to kill one boss, or a day to kill two? Is it really your idea of "fun" to track a raid mob for two days in a row, or to poopsock a dragon's spawn point? The amount of time that's spent doing the aforementioned things on this server is about a hundred times more than any guild had to do in classic. I'm saying that the cost to being a high end raider on p99 is unfair for anyone with a life outside of EQ, so why is it relevant to the question of its fairness that you would get less dragons if you agreed to a rotation?

The people who would quit because they don't get to play the version of EQ that you seem to like are obviously in the minority. That version of EQ was invented on this server, it was never a requirement in classic, so I doubt there's a significant number of players who would be really bummed out if raid mobs didn't have absurdly long windows. It's clearly more in the server's interest to make the game less of a time commitment (provided it's classically accurate), so don't act like there'd be some huge exodus of players who are disappointed that they can't poopsock anymore.

To answer your first question, I would rather spend more time in order to get more mobs yes. I would not prefer to log on once every now and then (or when it's my turn in a "rotation) to kill a mob, I would prefer to put in a little work and kill them all of the time.

Secondly, the high end of the server is always in the minority, that's why there's so much competition to get there between players who play for that reason. Other games have adjusted for this to allow more casual players access to these things via things such as instancing (now everybody with a sufficient force can have a crack at things).

The only difference between this server and 12 years ago is that we've all done it before and know how it works, so there are a lot more people at the "high end" of the server.

In classic EverQuest, more casual players weren't typically getting raid mobs. On project 1999 players not willing to spend hours tracking/camped out ready at places aren't getting them either.

I guess I don't see what's so unclassic about that overall? These mobs were never intended for everybody to be killing in the first place. The only issue we have is more players that want to kill them. TBH, the only system that could ever keep players like myself, and more casual players both happy would be instancing so that everyone had their shot. That's not what EverQuest is.

Vohl · #5 09-08-2011, 04:39 PM

So how does saying someone is a servant not imply that they have some sort of obligation? (For that matter, how does drawing this conclusion make someone an ignorant liberal?) The only unreasonable posts I'm seeing here are the ones that look like they belong in RnF.

CrotchCricket · #6 09-08-2011, 04:53 PM

the point was made in the context of the fact they're not administrators of the server for themselves. If you volunteer to have a responsiblility, then you DO HAVE AN OBLIGATION!!!! You can't use the fact that you're volunteering as a crutch to not have obligation...either they have it or don't...in which case if they don't owe us anything then don't expect your petition to be answered. The point is they signed up for what they're doing...and we're free to criticize as we please. And who really cares what section threads are posted under...if you don't like what you're reading, then stop fucking reading good god, you people want everything to be peachy fucking clean....do any of you fucks live with rest of us in this world???? I'm so sick of morons only reading part of the point and making their own judgments without fully informing themselves. We say words like fuck, we don't all wipe our asses totally clean, scratches our balls and wipe our mouths....and guess what we're your neighbor, your nephew and possibly that ugly little seed you're breeding!!!

Peace,
The Props

h0tr0d (shaere) · #7 09-08-2011, 05:47 PM

It doesn't necessarily mean they will act like adults Bob, I think you give too much credit to the online factor in the gaming community. "Adults" can also force children to share. Treating a child like an adult isn't the best solution and most of these people despite their age act like children in regards to in game conduct. "Adults" long ago worked out standing in lines, waiting your turns at traffic lights, appointments, reservations and any number of things to make things go smoother and to avoid conflict or trouble. So we try to teach our children by making them share, making them wait their turn, make them do their homework before play etc etc. If they're children and their actions prove little else force them to wait in line force them to share.

Drem · #8 09-09-2011, 10:25 AM

are there a lot of corpses rotting here in the raid scene? i hope so

Aadill · #9 09-09-2011, 11:26 AM

Perhaps a definition of poopsocking needs to be cleared up: poopsocking should (and has) been defined as being online on the spawn point of a mob, fully buffed in order to immediately engage a mob (possibly with auto attack on) in attempts to have an immediate engage. This requires all players present to be sitting at their computer desk ready to attack. The term poopsocking implies you can't leave to go poop because you'll miss something in the game. While there have been instances of poopsocking, most players take turns in shifts on tracking mobs, playing near a mob's spawn area, or even being loged in at all.

Since the inception of Kunark, about the only mobs where players have ever actively waited for it to spawn are Trakanon and VS.

Trakanon is generally camped by logging players out at the ledge due to the otherwise high potential for leapfrogging when coming from the zoneline. This has been done by both guilds for quite some time and is nothing new or even debilitating seeing as the majority of the players are 60 and most don't care about experience or droppable loot (some do and they play other characters while their mains are camped out). Leapfrogging on this server has always been an issue. Camping at the ledge simply removed it from the equation. Trakanon is camped by both guilds by logging out at the ledge. A tracker or group of trackers in the form of an xp group maintain a presence close to Trak's lair to alert either guild of Trakanon spawning. Only on one occasion has there been an actual poopsocking of Trakanon where everyone stayed logged in and buffed with autoattack on on top of his spawn. The window is so short that it's easy to get tied up in the zone very often and sometimes people play for long periods of time because there is a good chance of having the mob spawn during that window.

Venril Sathir is actively camped by XP groups in the area or in the sewers at Verix Kyloxs' camp since a VP key piece is located there. Venril Sathir has been poopsocked on a few occasions but generally only at the end of his window. Karnor's Castle is considered the go-to zone for guild-wide transport around Kunark. That is a tactic that you can find from many online sources and consequently why you generally find a large number of players from both guilds there regardless of the status of Venril Sathir's window.

There are no "4 day long poopsock fests" where players are at their computer ready to go within half a second. That was last summer and has long been gone. As of now, some level of tracking work is put into raiding and sometimes characters get surrendered in the interest of getting a mob kill but no one is looking to sit logged in all day every day. If you want actual poopsocking look no further than Sony's latest progression server. Last time I looked at Fippy it was in way worse condition where everyone DID stay logged in and Shadowknights were used to instantly HT a boss with the assisted use of MQ. Even worse, they were still using the first 15 in zone rule to enforce claim.

So yeah, is this classic? No... but the raid scene has a lot of petitions because neither side is willing to back down in thinking they had FTE on a mob. Both guilds are ready to go within seconds of each other for the most part, and with FTE as the only rule it's only a matter of having some method to know ahead of time so both guilds don't go attacking a mob and THEN go about petitioning. The best fix for that would be for the mob to have a shout when engaged. The first person on the agro list would get it and then everyone know who should be attacking the mob. That was proposed a long long long time ago and it never happened (although I could be imagining it so let me go look this up).

Lazortag · #10 09-09-2011, 02:07 PM

Aadill, you're very smart and a lot of what you said is true. I especially agree about Fippy being in a far unhealthier state than our server, and you're right to clarify what poopsocking actually is, and how there's less of it.

Still, like I said, the "entry cost" to the upper-end of the raid scene is still way too high. It's too high both by the standard of what was expected in classic and by the standard of how much time the average person can reasonably devote to this game. Even if you don't need to have your whole guild sit on a spawn point for 4 days, you sometimes need trackers to track mobs for that long, which has proven to be very unhealthy for the server. Most aspiring high-end guilds just don't have the numbers to devote to taking shifts tracking mobs at every hour of the day. Most casual raid guilds don't have enough european players in their roster to even be able to track mobs early in the morning, so they just don't even bother to track at all, since it would be such a huge waste of time if a mob spawned when no one was up (plus it would be hard to get a TOD so you'd often waste time tracking the mob after it died). Do you see how that can be discouraging? And to top it all of, this was never how it worked in classic. Back then you had to devote a lot of time to the game, sure, but you never had to make one of your guildies go through a 96 hour tracking shift just so you can get a chance at dragon loot.