Claw of Lightning or Rogue Epic for offhand?

[Jimjam]

Dsm, what does your calc say the dps of just the ragebringer in primary including bs and + attack? Disable any dual wield, etc

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dsm, what does your calc say the dps of just the ragebringer in primary including bs and + attack? Disable any dual wield, etc

Just as a quick note, the DPS calculations in my previous post did not have backstab double attack. I realized I forgot to push the absolute latest code. That is fixed now. The DPS ratios between the weapons wouldn't really change, the numbers will just go up.

Here is Ragebringer and Fang with backstab double attack and without dual wield. The Rogue is level 60, has 255 STR, 100% Haste, and 100 ATK base:

Against a normal level 50 mob with 115 AC:

1. Ragebringer Primary - 109 DPS with Backstab and the + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary - 110 DPS with Backstab.

Against a 60+ mob with 400 AC and 200 AGI:

1. Ragebringer Primary - 74 DPS with Backstab and the + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary - 74 DPS with Backstab.

It looks like the lower Backstab damage from Fang is offsetting Fang's better autoattack DPS. Ragebringer does do significantly more backstab damage. It looks like Ragebringer is doing around 80k damage via backstab, vs 45k damage via Vyemm Fang against the level 50 mob.

This is probably why swapping Ragebringer to mainhand for backstabs is a good idea when using Fang. I can't imagine the small loss in autoattack DPS from the swap would offset the higher backstabs.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Just to make sure there is no confusion, the 45k backstab number vs. The 80k backstab number is largely due to Ragebringer being slower, and thus more backstabs are done within the same number of swings tested for both weapons.

Vyemm Fang had like 270 Backstabs vs. 400 from Ragebringer. 270 / 400 = 0.675 x 80,0000 = ~54k backstab damage from Ragebringer vs. ~45k backstab damage from Fang in the same timeframe.

Without backstab Ragebringer does 45 DPS vs Fang's 57 DPS against the level 50 mob. 9000 extra backstab damage from Ragebringer over 850 seconds (the total fight time using Fang) is around 11 DPS. This is how Ragebringer catches up. Ragebringer loses around 12 DPS from a worse ratio, but gains around 11 DPS from a better backstab.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Against a 60+ mob with 400 AC and 200 AGI:

1. Ragebringer Primary - 74 DPS with Backstab and the + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary - 74 DPS with Backstab.

This is not what parses from end game encounters reflect at all. Your calculator is wrong. Even Thornstinger (12/19) parses even with Ragebringer (15/25) against red con targets like vindi/aow. DPS against junk targets is insignificant. Fix your shit or quit bringing it up.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is not what parses from end game encounters reflect at all. Your calculator is wrong. Even Thornstinger (12/19) parses even with Ragebringer (15/25) against red con targets like vindi/aow. DPS against junk targets is insignificant. Fix your shit or quit bringing it up.

You missed the part where I said those numbers were without backstab double attacks. Remember that this is without duelist as well.

Also there is a range of DPS values you can get on an individual parse. I am showing the average DPS over 75 parses.

With backstab double attacks, Fang Primary + Ragebringer secondary is doing 96 DPS against a 60+ raid mob with 400 AC and 200 AGI. The range of possible DPS values in a single parse is from 90 DPS to 105 DPS without duelist. Also remember that to get a precise parse equivalent number-wise, you need the same AC value as the mob on P99.

It would be great if you provided some parses.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just as a quick note, the DPS calculations in my previous post did not have backstab double attack. I realized I forgot to push the absolute latest code. That is fixed now. The DPS ratios between the weapons wouldn't really change, the numbers will just go up.

Here is Ragebringer and Fang with backstab double attack and without dual wield. The Rogue is level 60, has 255 STR, 100% Haste, and 100 ATK base:

Against a normal level 50 mob with 115 AC:

1. Ragebringer Primary - 109 DPS with Backstab and the + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary - 110 DPS with Backstab.

Against a 60+ mob with 400 AC and 200 AGI:

1. Ragebringer Primary - 74 DPS with Backstab and the + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary - 74 DPS with Backstab.

It looks like the lower Backstab damage from Fang is offsetting Fang's better autoattack DPS. Ragebringer does do significantly more backstab damage. It looks like Ragebringer is doing around 80k damage via backstab, vs 45k damage via Vyemm Fang against the level 50 mob.

This is probably why swapping Ragebringer to mainhand for backstabs is a good idea when using Fang. I can't imagine the small loss in autoattack DPS from the swap would offset the higher backstabs.

Thank you for the numbers. How much did adding double backstabs improve the numbers for the dual wield set ups? Comparing the primary to dual wield as it stands makes it look like even a bis secondary only adds like 10% dps?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thank you for the numbers. How much did adding double backstabs improve the numbers for the dual wield set ups? Comparing the primary to dual wield as it stands makes it look like even a bis secondary only adds like 10% dps?

No problem! I can show you some parses with everything.

The Rogue is level 60, has 255 STR, 100% Haste, and 100 ATK base. No duelist during the fight:

Against a normal level 50 mob with 115 AC:

1. Ragebringer Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 145 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary + Ragebringer Secondary = 143.5 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

3. Vyemm Fang Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 145.5 DPS with Double Backstabs. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

4. Mrylokar's Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 153 DPS with Double Backstabs.

Against a 60+ mob with 400 AC and 200 AGI:

1. Ragebringer Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 96.5 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK.

2. Vyemm Fang Primary + Ragebringer Secondary = 97 DPS with Double Backstabs and + 40 ATK. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

3. Vyemm Fang Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 95.5 DPS with Double Backstabs. No main hand swapping to Ragebringer.

4. Mrylokar's Primary + Claw of Lightning Secondary = 99 DPS with Double Backstabs.

[Cecily]

It's like they're the same number or something.

[Zuranthium]

You're assuming you know exactly how AC works on p99. Better make sure, and also to be completely sure we'd need to know the actual AC of an NPC in game, which is something only devs would be able to say. Have they stated a number anywhere, for an NPC? Without having exact info, it's possible the AC of NPC's on p99 are all custom (unlikely, given the amount of work it would have taken to change every NPC in game, although they've definitely made custom changes to certain NPC's).

But anyway, you should still run the parses at 550 and 900 AC and see what the difference is compared to the 400 AC parse you did.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're assuming you know exactly how AC works on p99. Better make sure, and also to be completely sure we'd need to know the actual AC of an NPC in game, which is something only devs would be able to say. Have they stated a number anywhere, for an NPC? Without having exact info, it's possible the AC of NPC's on p99 are all custom (unlikely, given the amount of work it would have taken to change every NPC in game, although they've definitely made custom changes to certain NPC's).

But anyway, you should still run the parses at 550 and 900 AC and see what the difference is compared to the 400 AC parse you did.

You can solve for AC without a database dump from P99. As an easy example, 100 + X = 300 is solvable. The answer is 200. When using a set of parses like Snaggle's parses, we know all of the variables already except for Mob AC. We know Warriors gain 5 Defense Skill per level, so Defense Skill would be capped at 200 at level 45 for Shady.

I already have P99 parses with multiple classes and weapon sets attacking the same mob. Using the same defensive stats for that mob, my DPS calculator matches the P99 parses. I am not sure how you can claim that is pure coincidence.

I posted these example parses in my DPS calculator thread. My code is open source too.