Velious Solo/Duo Challenge Official Thread (and Trio/Group)

[Zuranthium]

Encounters are not rated based on using consumables, particularly not Red Dragon Tooth, which should probably be considered Puppet Strings tier. Also don't get why DSM is saying anyone can use a pet + bio orb to kite. Bio orb will cause the pet to aggro any time blind lands, and if you're trying to very slowly build up aggro before sending the pet, that won't work vs Tantor running at SoW speed; you get hit before the bio orb activation finishes.

Yes the non-summoning NPC's can be kited with various methods by some classes but it can take a ton of time. Their raw stats and "cool" factor make them worth including I think. Let the Rangers have something. People still need to beat dragons to complete the rank.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They seem to have an elevated mana regen rate compared to default mobs. The wife and I were able to duo numerous 55+ CH'ers and gaters using mana drain (mortificator staff on her shamana), but not the CH'ing WW dragons. Disclaimer is it's been some years since we tried them so stuff might've been changed in the meantime.

Would be interesting to test out. The staff is doing 260 mana decrease per minute from procs, but Enchanters can do 1,400+ per minute.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gregendek Icepaw is too easy for that tier and is at least a full tier easier than Khelkor. Both the mob itself is much easier and the room/split is also dramatically less risky.

Thank you, I had their rooms reversed. Greg can be lowered a tier.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Plane of Growth is troublesome due to Protectors. Many 'solo' challenges in there would involve somebody else keeping those occupied.

It's fine to have someone keep them down, that shouldn't count against for these purposes. It would be unfair otherwise to people who already permanently ruined their faction while raiding, and if the protectors were instead included in the difficulty rating, that would also be unfair to people who want to maintain their faction by using /q before kills.

Does anyone know if the protector of growth HP listed here is correct, btw? I thought it was half that amount.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Encounters are not rated based on using consumables, particularly not Red Dragon Tooth, which should probably be considered Puppet Strings tier. Also don't get why DSM is saying anyone can use a pet + bio orb to kite. Bio orb will cause the pet to aggro any time blind lands, and if you're trying to very slowly build up aggro before sending the pet, that won't work vs Tantor running at SoW speed; you get hit before the bio orb activation finishes.

I explained it in my previous posts. Those three mobs are already above level 60. Blind is going to be resisted most of the time because of the level difference, especially without a malo or tash. You can also build up agro before summoning the pet. Everybody can use SoW pots as well. It was just an example showing every class has at least one option for those kills. There are easier and less expensive ways to do it of course, as I also explained.

I disagree with the idea that red dragon tooth is on par with puppet strings. A charmed mob is going to do a lot more damage than a level 41 necro pet. The main reason to use red dragon tooth in this scenario is duration. The fight will last so long you'll run out of puppet string charges potetially. The vast majority of fights do not last literal hours.

I think they should go on a lower tier that doesn't exist, or tantor/stronghorn should at least be moved to the lowesr existing tier.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can also build up agro before summoning the pet.

Build it up how vs a SoW speed MOB? Even with SoW yourself you have to strafe kite for a long time to gain enough space advantage to use a single fast activation ability. It would take hours and hours. Anyone who puts that amount of time in deserves the kill, LOL.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everybody can use SoW pots as well.

Only if they don't want to try for an S+ kill.

Having SoW still doesn't change anything about being able to use Bio Orb. It has 5 second activation; a SoW speed MOB closes in too quickly. Even vs a regular speed MOB it may be sketchy, I can't remember exactly. I do remember 4.5 second casts from max range being barely able to outspace a regular speed MOB. You're also going to need to reapply lev cloak a bunch during this kiting process if that's your lev source, and it's a 6 sec cast. Plus more drinks of the SoW pot. Trying to kite down at the water probably won't work either, you need room to strafe in a big circle to build up the space, so that opens you up to getting other aggro.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree with the idea that red dragon tooth is on par with puppet strings. A charmed mob is going to do a lot more damage than a level 41 necro pet.

Charm of course has much higher potential, but can break. It's not about the two items being exactly the same power though, it's about the tier. Two clicks of any other strong item is S* tier. A single click of Puppet Strings can be much more powerful than that, but it's all the same tier because it's ultimately all the same thing of using a massive hack. Dragon tooth could be considered that level of hackery, it's creating a ton of DPS in a way other items can't.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Build it up how vs a SoW speed MOB? Even with SoW yourself you have to strafe kite for a long time to gain enough space advantage to use a single fast activation ability. It would take hours and hours. Anyone who puts that amount of time in deserves the kill, LOL.



Only if they don't want to try for an S+ kill.

Having SoW still doesn't change anything about being able to use Bio Orb. It has 5 second activation; a SoW speed MOB closes in too quickly. Even vs a regular speed MOB it may be sketchy, I can't remember exactly. I do remember 4.5 second casts from max range being barely able to outspace a regular speed MOB. You're also going to need to reapply lev cloak a bunch during this kiting process if that's your lev source, and it's a 6 sec cast. Plus more drinks of the SoW pot. Trying to kite down at the water probably won't work either, you need room to strafe in a big circle to build up the space, so that opens you up to getting other aggro.



Charm of course has much higher potential, but can break. It's not about the two items being exactly the same power though, it's about the tier. Two clicks of any other strong item is S* tier. A single click of Puppet Strings can be much more powerful than that, but it's all the same tier because it's ultimately all the same thing of using a massive hack. Dragon tooth could be considered that level of hackery, it's creating a ton of DPS in a way other items can't.

You are spending too much time thinking about the Red Dragon Tooth + Bio Orb strategy. It was just an all/all example to show every class has at least one method of killing non-summon mobs. I've done bio orb kiting before, so I do have an understanding of it. I don't want to keep getting caught up on details and have the conversation stall.

Most classes have an easier way to kill non-summoning mobs, as I already explained. Tantor can be soloed by a sub 60 ranger doing bow kiting, as a simple example. That shouldn't be a second teir kill in my opinion. A Warrior with SoW pots and corpsed arrows can do the same.

Not everyone agrees with your classification of clickies. Most people have Jboots, and most mobs run at normal speed. It is a bit weird to disquailify someone from S+ due to SoW pots, unless you are banning JBoots as well.

[Zuranthium]

Jboots aren't a consumable, it's everlasting equipment.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tantor can be soloed by a sub 60 ranger doing bow kiting, as a simple example.

Yeah but that's just an example of a particular strength the class has that isn't applicable elsewhere, and it takes a lot of time. That capability the class has deserves to get its tiny moment in the sun. Also the big draw I see with the Velious challenges is incentivizing people to interact with NPC's they otherwise never would touch.

[loramin]

Constructive discussion between some of this forum's strongest personalities over solo artistry ... and everyone's being respectful to each other?

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Constructive discussion between some of this forum's strongest personalities over solo artistry ... and everyone's being respectful to each other?

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My rule never changes. Don't attack me, and act respectful. I will always respond in kind. Hopefully you choose to act respectful and don't attack me in this thread.

[Duik]

I cant help but protect the innocent (and trolls need food too).

[Duik]

Sounds like 10% mana and 10% HP naked challeges are the only way to prove our manliness to one another.

Gonna get me some nekkid elf video if it's the last thing i do. Oops, did I just say that out loud?

[loramin]

I don't see consensus yet on clickies or ranks, so I haven't tried to summarize the discussion on them, but it seems like the mob/tier list is mostly uncontroversial, which is great! If no one objects, everything on the list without red text after it could go onto the wiki tomorrow.

As for the red stuff, I'm sure everyone here can come to a reasonable agreement on it, and then everything can go into the wiki.

Here's are the "controversies" I see so far (plus I added one of my own). Apologies if I missed anything.

Solo Master:
* level 52-54 Western Wastes Dragons (minus Bufa/Nintal/Espora/Gangel/Quoza) and Ice Burrower
These dragons are single-pullalble (I was unclear if this meant the poster felt that should change the tier of these mobs, or not) - DSM
Ice Burrower in contention as too easy for this tier - DSM
* Laoch Uljux / Laoch Yubtin / Laoch Zalbryn / Elder Kalur / Elder Kajind / Elder Hajnix / Tri Velic / A Kromzek Spy
* level 56 Wakening Land priests / Mist Panther / Shamus Aghllsews
* all level 55-56 MOB in Dragon Necropolis
* Yvolcarn
* Vores the Hunter / Kardakor / Gnomish Deserter
* A siren priestess / An Enthralled Molkor
* A4 Brenn+Grenn / TwentyTwo (A4 version) / EightySix / A hedge wizard (might need to be a tier higher, can't remember if any can be solo aggroed)
* all unnamed level 54-57 Plane of Growth MOB
* all level 53 Icepaw in Velk's Lab / Any level 55-56 MOB in Velk's Lab
* all level 55-56 MOB in Kael (certain MOB's probably need to be a tier higher because of pull difficulty)
* Tserrina Syl'Tor (must obtain each dungeon key on your own for it to count)
The dungeon key thing sounds out of scope of the challenge to me; the solo artist challenge is about doing cool solo fights, not nit-picking how people get to the fight, and this isn't the solo self-found challenge (we don't make people solo earn any of the other items they bring) - Loramin

Solo Grandmaster/Duo Master:
* level 56-58 Western Wastes Dragons that don't C-heal or Chaos Breath, plus Bufa/Nintal/Espora/Gangel/Quoza, plus Stronghorn / Tantor / Breezeboot
I don't think Tantor or Stronghorn should be on the list ... They do not summon, so you can kite them - DSM
* Laoch Yailin / Laoch Jaklor / Quadrix Velic / Supreme Laochsmith Psorin / Eldriaks Fe`Dhar / Ralgyn
* A corrupted unicorn
* level 59-60 named Rats in Dragon Necropolis
* Chief Kalan
* all level 57-61 MOB in Thurgadin/Icewell, except the Royal Guardsmen
* An icy servant / Fellspine / A neriad weaver
* Plane of Mischief puppets (aside from Bristlebane) / My Right Hand
* Galiel Spirithoof / Ordro / Sarik the Fang / Grahl Strongback / Tunarean Earthmelder / A thifling lord / An entoling essence channeler / A Serene Forest Spirit
* A Crystal Destroyer / Failed Experiment
* all level 57-58 MOB in Kael (certain MOB's probably need to be a tier higher because of pull difficulty)
We need to figure out the "certain mobs" part
* all level 59-62 MOB in the entry areas of Temple of Veeshan that don't have linked aggro, such as An emerald sky defender

Solo God/Duo Grandmaster:
* level 59-60 Western Waste Dragons, plus lower level Dragons that C-heal or Chaos Breath, plus Icehackle / Tsiraka / Tranala / Travala
* Laoch Zelnair plus any level 58+ Loach MOB in Skyshrine / Lawyla / Jualicn / Oglard / Talnifs / Talon Velic / Lignark / Zaldin Fe`Dhar
* Phenocryst / Rolandal
* Vilefang / A Chetari Packrat / A Chetari Hoarder
* Lodizal
* Captain Stonefist
* Grand Historian Thoridain / Royal Guardsmen in Icewell Keep
* A Siren Templar
* Ferjeneror / Lithiniath / Bristlebane puppet
* A Phase Puma / A guardian power / An abstruse phantasm
* Tpos Icepaw / Gregendek Icepaw / Khelkar Icepaw / Bledrek+Bled / Kerdelb+Kerd
Gregendek Icepaw is too easy for that tier - Danth
Zura agrees; looks like there's consensus this one should move down
* all level 60-65 MOB in Kael (certain MOB's probably need to be a tier higher because of pull difficulty)
* all level 59-62 MOB in the entry areas of Temple of Veeshan that have linked aggro

Duo God:
* Level 62-66 Western Wastes Dragons
* A Huge Gargoyle Guard / A Huge Golem Sentry / Placlis / The Seer
* Queen Raltaas / Vaniki / Neb
* Seneschal Aldikar (Icewell Keep)
* Taskmaster Abyott
* Level 60-61 named mermaids in Siren's Grotto
Helsia mindreaver is soloable (and so belongs on a lower tier) - PatChapp
* Keeper of the Glades / Undogo Digolo / Ancient Totem
* all Level 66+ MOB in Kael (minus raid targets)
* various Temple of Veeshan encounters to be decided
"Various" needs to be determined

Finally, just a general comment, there's a lot of "all mobs ..." entries. When we put this in the wiki, I think it'd be ideal to spell those mobs out, so each one has a link people can click on to see what they're going to solo.