Best solo melee class?

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Indeed! SK Epic Proc is quite nice. Flamberge is still higher DPS than SK Epic when taking the procs into consideration, but the gap isn't huge. The healing portion of the Epic Proc more than makes up for the slightly lower DPS of SK Epic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIb859Cg5ZM

I think this video does a good job of showing how good the SK epic is. Even though he failed killing the cliff golem, his gear at the time was very mediocre and probably would have won had he more had slightly better gear or even just a willsapper proc. He did have outside buffs but was only using eyepatch(probably wins with VoG).

And nice comparison to your ancient 2h wep! I would love to see something similar with a vulak axe sk vs epic.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by sammoHung [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's how I realized Monk defense was so OP. way more (unslowed) NPC misses on monk than on warrior of similar AC and character level. way more NPC hits landing on ranger with similar AC as monk

Yea, putting a figure on incoming/tanking dps is very helpful. It’s also tough to discern say a non-disc warrior from a monk without actual data.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nice findings! I wonder, how does the lower defence impact ranger's avoidance specifically compared to monk and warrior?

All classes use the same formulas for avoidance. Avoidance is the chance for the mob to miss when melee attacking.

Avoidance uses your Defense Skill and AGI to determine if the mob misses. There aren't any other factors. Special abilities that are activated, like Voiddance, are the exception to this. As far as I know, there are no classes that get a special passive bonus to avoidance.

Dodge/Parry/Block/Riposte only get triggered when you get hit, which is after the avoidance check. They just set the damage you take to 0.

This is why cloth casters get wrecked a lot faster in melee. Having 145 defense is rough. They are taking like 30% more damage than a Warrior according to my DPS calculator due to having 107 less defense skill points at level 60.

As a simple example, I'll show why a level 1 Orc Pawn has trouble hitting a level 60 Warrior.

The avoidance formula is simple:

1. Orc Pawn has 5 Offense Skill and 5 Weapon Skill. Add them together and you have a total value of 10.

2. The 60 Warrior has 252 Defense Skill and 255 AGI. AGI gets reduced to ~48 at 255 AGI. Add 252 and 48 together to get a total value of 300.

The formula rolls a 10 sided dice for the attacker (Orc Pawn), and a 300 sided dice for the defender (Warrior). If the Attacker's roll is higher than the Defender's, it is a hit. So the Warrior would need to roll a 9 or lower on a 300 sided dice to possibly get hit by an orc pawn.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All classes use the same formulas for avoidance. Avoidance is the chance for the mob to miss when melee attacking.

Avoidance uses your Defense Skill and AGI to determine if the mob misses. There aren't any other factors. Special abilities that are activated, like Voiddance, are the exception to this. As far as I know, there are no classes that get a special passive bonus to avoidance.

Dodge/Parry/Block/Riposte only get triggered when you get hit, which is after the avoidance check. They just set the damage you take to 0.

How is dodge/parry/riposte calculated? I couldn't find from a quick search.

From the ranger thread:

Riposte+Parry+Dodge" skill
ranger: 185+220+170=575
sk: 200+205+155=560
warrior: 225+230+175=630

ranger riposte: 6.4%, parry:9.8%, dodge: 8.3%
sk riposte:7.5%, parry:11.7%, dodge:8.5%
warrior riposte:7.2%, parry:15.6%, dodge:10.8%

If it isn't a sample size issue, there is something dragging the ranger's dodge/parry effectiveness down because they have higher skill caps and still score lower than SK.

So if mobs hit rangers more and rangers dodge/parry/riposte less, that's a double whammy before AC is even factored in.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How is dodge/parry/riposte calculated? I couldn't find from a quick search.

From the ranger thread:



If it isn't a sample size issue, there is something dragging the ranger's dodge/parry effectiveness down because they have higher skill caps and still score lower than SK.

So if mobs hit rangers more and rangers dodge/parry/riposte less, that's a double whammy before AC is even factored in.

Dodge/Parry/Riposte/Block do not have any class bonuses/penalties as far as I know. They are calculated the same for all classes, so skill is all that matters.

These are the formulas I am using in my DPS calculator:

Block Chance = (Skill Value + 100) / 25

Riposte Chance = (Skill Value + 100) / 50

Parry Chance = (Skill Value + 100) / 45

Dodge Chance = (Skill Value + 100) / 45

I do have log data from my SK. For these logs he wasn't level 60. He would have been between 55 and 58 probably, so the level 60 chances would be a bit higher.

74550 hits
6414 dodges
7268 ripostes
9735 parries
97,867 total hits

6414 / 97,867 = 6.5% chance for dodge at ~155 dodge
7268 / 97,867 = 7.5% chance for riposte at ~200 Riposte
9735 / 97,867 = 10% chance for parry at ~205 Parry

The checks occur in sequential order. That is why you see this pattern where Parry occurs more than other skills, even though the chance of parry occuring is the same as dodge.

Block/Parry get checked first. This means that Dodge and Riposte get checked less, because a successful Parry will stop the dodge and riposte checks from happening at all.

[sammoHung]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

6414 / 97,867 = 6.5% chance for dodge at ~155 dodge
7268 / 97,867 = 7.5% chance for riposte at ~200 Riposte
9735 / 97,867 = 10% chance for parry at ~205 Parry

The checks occur in sequential order. That is why you see this pattern where Parry occurs more than other skills, even though the chance of parry occuring is the same as dodge.

Block/Parry get checked first. This means that Dodge and Riposte get checked less, because a successful Parry will stop the dodge and riposte checks from happening at all.

I'm gonna comb through my monk logs later and post results - I estimate Block being a bit more effective than Parry, because of higher skill cap

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by sammoHung [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm gonna comb through my monk logs later and post results - I estimate Block being a bit more effective than Parry, because of higher skill cap

Yes, block should be better than Parry because it has a smaller denominator:

Block Chance = (Skill Value + 100) / 25

Parry Chance = (Skill Value + 100) / 45

I got these formulas from EQEMU, so it is possible the denominators are different on P99. That may be why Parry has a 10% chance in my logs rather than the predicted 6.7% chance at 205 skill.

Even if the denominator is different on P99, I'd imagine Block having a smaller denominator than Parry would still carry over. Parry using a denominator of 30 instead of 45 would be a 10% chance to parry. So Block might be more like 16 instead of 25 if the ratios are the same.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The checks occur in sequential order. That is why you see this pattern where Parry occurs more than other skills, even though the chance of parry occuring is the same as dodge.

Block/Parry get checked first. This means that Dodge and Riposte get checked less, because a successful Parry will stop the dodge and riposte checks from happening at all.

Yeah but they happen in sequential order for both SK and ranger so ranger shouldn't score lower than SK if skill is higher, especially since nothing sets them appart in the formula.

Sample issues I guess.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah but they happen in sequential order for both SK and ranger so ranger shouldn't score lower than SK if skill is higher, especially since nothing sets them appart in the formula.

Sample issues I guess.

Do you know what the sample size was for the data you provided?

I haven't done extensive research on Dodge/Parry/Riposte/Block. I'd be curious to see if other Rangers have posted their data, so we can compare data sets.

[Crede]

BUGEN (56 Monk) vs YENDOR (59 Ranger)
Howling Stones North/West wing mobs

Bugen

HP: ~3200

AC: ~1020

Total damage: 84,756

Avg hit: 63

Swings: 2692

Defended: 455 (16.9%)

Hit: 1338 (49.7%)

Missed: 899 (33.4%)

Accuracy: 59.8%

Dodged: 93 (4.6%)

Parried: 0 (0%)

Blocked: 274 (10.2%)

Riposted: 88 (3.6%)

Absorbed: 0 (0%)

Avg Dmg/Swing: 31.5

Yendor

HP: ~3600

AC: ~920

Total damage: 45,839

Avg hit: 61

Swings: 1127

Defended: 108 (9.6%)

Hit: 750 (66.5%)

Missed: 269 (23.9%)

Accuracy: 73.6%

Dodged: 45 (4.2%)

Parried: 34 (3%)

Blocked: 0 (0%)

Riposted: 29 (2.7%)

Absorbed: 0 (0%)

Avg Dmg/Swing: 40.7

BUGEN (54 Monk) vs NLAAR (56 SK) vs MYUHARIN (56 SK)
Hole mobs, mostly rats from the jail area

Bugen

HP: ~3000

AC: ~1000

Total damage: 62,415

Avg hit: 64

Swings: 1838

Defended: 276 (15%)

Hit: 968 (52.7%)

Missed: 594 (32.3%)

Accuracy: 62%

Dodged: 44 (2.4%)

Parried: 0 (0%)

Blocked: 176 (9.6%)

Riposted: 49 (2.7%)

Absorbed: 7 (0.4%)

Avg Dmg/Swing: 33.9

Nlaar

HP: ~3500

AC: ~1000

Total damage: 72,411

Avg hit: 65

Swings: 1736

Defended: 148 (8.5%)

Hit: 1099 (63.3%)

Missed: 489 (28.2%)

Accuracy: 69.2%

Dodged: 19 (1.1%)

Parried: 55 (3.3%)

Blocked: 43 (2.6%)

Riposted: 43 (2.6%)

Absorbed: 0 (0%)

Avg Dmg/Swing: 41.7

Myuharin

HP: ??

AC: ??

Total damage: 14,115

Avg hit: 65

Swings: 359

Defended: 39 (10.9%)

Hit: 214 (59.6%)

Missed: 106 (29.5%)

Accuracy: 66.9%

Dodged: 12 (3.3%)

Parried: 12 (3.3%)

Blocked: 0 (0%)

Riposted: 14 (4%)

Absorbed: 1 (0.3%)

Avg Dmg/Swing: 39.3