New Druid Advice from the experts

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The ring gives you more control on charm breaks which means you can break with the mob at a sliver of life consistently. This lets you finish mobs with less mana intensive nukes and nuking is often the most mana intensive part of the ordeal. I routinely finish mobs in their mid-high 40s with a sub 300dd nuke, which is sub 5% hp. Failing to do so will require you to send a couple big boys downrange and that kills your mana efficiency. On my ench with like +14mana regen and TOT every 2 minutes I'm still limited by mana so on a druid it can only be worse. Some camp might not warrant it but if you have more than enough mobs on tap why not be efficient?

It is also absolutely easier to not lose mobs when they're a hair away from death, that is not even up for debate. With my keybinds, its 2 strokes and its done, almost instant. You can claim you have S-tier invis timing but when you're juggling a 5 mobs reverse charm your pet is basically losing anywhere between 5-20% hp per round. That 2 seconds delay is bound to miss the mark more often than not as it can be tricky even with a ring. It doesn't have to be that extreme though, just 2 rounds with double attacks and max hits can make you lose your mob.

Again I simply disagree. Nukes require you to stand still and cast them. Adding 1-2 seconds of cast time to your Nuke via Ring of Stealthy Travel doesn't make or break an encounter. It's really not difficult to break charm a second or two early.

Reverse charming is a riskier form of charming, so you are going to have RNG issues damage-wise regardless of which invis item/spell you end up using.

If you think it helps, that's great! That can make the game more fun. But I've seen no evidence to suggest there is a significant benifit to a 1-2 second faster break. If your mob is 1.5 seconds away from dying, you already are breaking at a very risky time RNG-wise, especially with potential lag or latency issues.

EDIT: Think about it this way. The longer you wait to break a charm, the higher the risk of losing the mob due to RNG damage. This is especially true if you are breaking charm 1-2 seconds before the mob's death at higher levels.

You would somehow need to show that the increased risk of losing the mob from breaking as late as possible is not as bad as the extra downtime from occasionally using 2 nukes instead of 1. Usually the loss of the mob is a bigger waste of time/resources than an occasional extra nuke from my experience.

[Goregasmic]

All I have to say is with gobby ring I don't lose mobs, I just don't, even reverse charming. And I hardly ever have to use my biggest nuke, much less nuke more than once. If you don't care about efficiency all that much it is one thing but I've been OOM often enough on big reverse charms that I know those savings are important. Or sometimes you're on a tight timer for repops and you just can't afford to med much. Those savings keep you going longer/faster.

If you don't want to use the ring that's cool but denying it is an immense QOL is just silly, especially as an ench for spell slots. I do have plans for a ring of stealthy travels somewhere down the line but I don't think I'll be getting rid of the gobby ring even then.

[Snaggles]

I would prioritize the basics. HP and Mana over STA and WIS in the beginning. A bit of MR depending what you like to fight since getting rooted is never good.

Goblin Gaz ring for charming.
Lumi staff is underrated even for single target killing (I did 45-53 in Grobb)
Eventually a Ring of Stealthy Shadows is prime QoL.

I forget if it’s still a thing but recall the Thurg leather bracer clicks Drones of Doom at level 5. Depending on the OP’s level and finances, if that is true I would get one ASAP. A 340hp dot goes a long way in your 20’s and 30’s. It will get you to lumi clicking range and then it’s off to the races.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would prioritize the basics. HP and Mana over STA and WIS in the beginning. A bit of MR depending what you like to fight since getting rooted is never good.

Goblin Gaz ring for charming.
Lumi staff is underrated even for single target killing (I did 45-53 in Grobb)
Eventually a Ring of Stealthy Shadows is prime QoL.

I forget if it’s still a thing but recall the Thurg leather bracer clicks Drones of Doom at level 5. Depending on the OP’s level and finances, if that is true I would get one ASAP. A 340hp dot goes a long way in your 20’s and 30’s. It will get you to lumi clicking range and then it’s off to the races.

Yeah Lumi Staff is a great idea too in terms of clickies. Free damage clickies always go a long way for leveling when it comes to saving mana. Just need to wait until level 46.

If thurg leather bracer is clickable at level 5 (wiki says level 46), that would be a nice leveling piece. OP would need to tag along for a Ring War or two first though, and thurg leather bracers are still around 5.5k with gems.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

spells > Tunare DS gloves > velious bracer > velious BP > snare ear > AC/HP gear > epic MQs > goblin ring <------ pay attention to this one OP and disregard the rest of the garbage in this thread

This is the right list of long-term priorities when you're a druid on a budget mid-40s. Add in ES arms and boots, both of which are cheap and useful. But don't buy MQs! All this stuff is attainable with the exception of the VSR drop.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ask yourself this simple question: when was the last time you were at max health, got beaten up, and died ... but if you'd just had 30 more HP, you would have survived? That situation is incredibly rare, but it's the only time having a few more AC/HP will actually impact you.

Just yesterday I gated out of CT gator pit at 30 health. I remember gating out of Kedge Keep at under 100 health. Today I had a situation where charm broke a little early and I had to manage two gators with ~30% health while I was at 20% mana and 160 health. I've got 163 hp in gear (not counting sta) on this toon. I killed both gators and didn't have to gate. 200hp worth of gear will absolutely prevent some deaths. AC is situationally very very useful.

I remember learning to charm on my first druid in CT gator alley. I went through an entire duration of PoTG without a single successful kill. Every time I'd either get hit so much while trying to charm my first pet, or charm would break early and I'd have two gators on me, etc etc. My gear sucked ass and I had no +hp items. A huge part of my struggle was simply that I had to learn from scratch how to charm, but the gear that would have helped me the most would have been AC and HP. I probably had like 800hp self buffed, and those gators hit in the 70s. Enough AC to turn those 30% max hits into 30% min hits would have been huge. Another huge benefit to +HP is that you don't have to wait till full health, letting most of your healing come more slowly from the super-efficient Regeneration line instead. Regen will give you up to ~400 hp for 100 mana, while Greater Healing is 270hp for 150 mana.

There's lots of charm spots where you can use sow/snare to stay far enough away to never get hit on charm breaks. But there's also several really good charm spots where you'll be in cramped spaces or underwater, and it's in those situations where HP and AC shine.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the right list of long-term priorities when you're a druid on a budget mid-40s.

Not really. Thurg BP costs 23k. If you don't want to pay for an MQ, you need to be high level or have a high level alt to get into a Kael Arena group. OP isn't in their high 50s.

If you are on a budget, you don't have 23k simply sitting around. You can buy Goblin Ring, Lumi Staff (or Thurg bracer if it's clickable at level 5), and 5-10k worth of basic gear first for leveling over time as you acquire plat, and resell that stuff later for other items. Having 15-20k sitting in your bank while you are leveling and naked isn't really helping your leveling process.

The priority list kjs86z2 posted could work if you have a lot of plat or are active in a raiding guild. Otherwise it's kinda silly to pay 23k for free regrowth and be naked in all your other slots. You can get more benefit from multiple clickies and HP/MP gear for the same total price.

Again, this list would be more reasonable for someone on an actual budget, not a kjs86z2 "budget":

1. Spells
2. Basic cheap HP/Mana gear (6/65 or 5/55 Rings, Golded Jaded Bracelets, Iksar Hide Cap, etc.)
3a. Thurg Bracer (if clickable at level 5, and can afford it well before level 45. Otherwise you can get ES Arms for 500 plat with the same DoT)
3b. Goblin Ring/Ring of Stealthy Travel (If you can afford before level 45)
4. Cheap Kunark Clickies (Elder Spiritists Arms and Gloves)
5. Lumi Staff
6. Velious Clickies (Tunare DS Gloves, Thurg BP)
7. Epic MQ

[loramin]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just yesterday I gated out of CT gator pit at 30 health.

But did you start at max health before you went all the way down to 30 health? Because if you didn't, your HP gear didn't help you at all.

All HP gear does is increase your maximum HP. It doesn't prevent damage, it doesn't help you recover faster, it just changes how much HP you have when fully healed.

If you don't heal up to that maximum before every fight, you're not benefiting from that gear.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But did you start at max health before you went all the way down to 30 health? Because if you didn't, your HP gear didn't help you at all.

All HP gear does is increase your maximum HP. It doesn't prevent damage, it doesn't help you recover faster, it just changes how much HP you have when fully healed.

If you don't heal up to that maximum before every fight, you're not benefiting from that gear.

Again, you are mixing things up. As I said previously:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are mixing things up a little bit here. You are correct about HP when it comes to upgrading individual pieces at high levels. At level 60, paying 300DKP for Onyx Chain Sleeves to get +40 HP in the arm slot is silly. That +40 HP from the Onyx Chain Sleeves isn't going to save you 99% of the time, and there are cheaper sleeve options like Vambraces of Discontent.

When twinking a new char, +HP gear is amazing. This is for two reasons:
1. You don't have any HP gear while naked, so putting some on gives you a big initial boost.
2. The way HP scales by level, HP gear is very strong at lower levels.

At level 1, a caster has maybe 20 HP. Getting 6/65 Rings alone at level 1 gives you 6 times the amount of HP you start with. You can survive way better with 6x more HP. You can get 5/55 Rings too if you want to save money, they are like half the price.

A level 30, the +HP gear I have on my Enchanter was basically half of my HP pool. I had somewhere around 400ish HP base, and +400ish HP from gear. So I had 2x the HP I should normally have if I was naked. That helps quite a bit to survive charm breaks. It isn't a difference of 30 HP like you describe.

If you have +400 HP from items and a base of 400 HP at level 30 like my Enchanter, you would normally regenerate well past 50% before doing a fight.

Also remember bind wound only goes to 50% HP for many classes, and doesn't go to 70% until 51 for the lucky classes that can do that. With 2x the HP on my Enchanter, that allows me to bind wound 100% of my naked HP. This doesn't apply as much to a Druid since they have Heal and Regen, but that is another use of Max HP.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you have +400 HP from items and a base of 400 HP at level 30 like my Enchanter, you would normally regenerate well past 50% before doing a fight.

You can frame it any way you like, but at the end of the day if you have 400 HP + 400 HP from items, you regenerate at the exact same rate as if you had +0 HP from items. That 400 HP of gear won't let you kill any faster, because all it adds is more maximum.

As I said before, if you aren't starting fights at maximum HP, and then fighting down to "almost dead, but you survive because of your +HP gear" ... your HP gear isn''t helping you. Except for ...

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also remember bind wound only goes to 50% HP for many classes

We were talking about Druids, and Druids really don't need Bind Wounds. But sure, if you're a soloing a Warrior or Monk or whatever, more max HP will help you start binding wounds sooner.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can frame it any way you like, but at the end of the day if you have 400 HP + 400 HP from items, you regenerate at the exact same rate as if you had +0 HP from items. That 400 HP of gear won't let you kill any faster, because all it adds is more maximum.

As I said before, if you aren't starting fights at maximum HP, and then fighting down to "almost dead, but you survive because of your +HP gear" ... your HP gear isn''t helping you. Except for ...

We were talking about Druids, and Druids really don't need Bind Wounds. But sure, if you're a soloing a Warrior or Monk or whatever, more max HP will help you start binding wounds sooner.

I have a 60 Torpor Shaman. I understand what you are trying to say about HP Regen.

But you don't seem to understand the basic concept that literally doubling your HP pool is more significant than getting +30 HP on a single item. I'd rather have my 2.6k hp on my level 60 Torpor Shaman instead of 1.3k lol. Same concept applies at level 30.

Remember that FoS also gives +400 HP. I hope you are not suggesting that Shamans are foolish for casting FoS on themselves and others. That it is simply a waste of mana.

Spending 1250pp on 5/55 rings, 35 HP earrings, and 15 hp bracelets for 200 HP is a good and cheap investment at low levels. Getting 10x HP at level 1 to 50% more HP at level 30 is significant for survival, especially while charming. You do indeed regenerate past your naked HP before starting a fight.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait, so your argument against the amazingness of the Goblin Ring is that there exists a more expensive ring, that low-level Druids can't farm themselves, which is not instant casting ... so everyone should use that instead?

You really sound like someone who hasn't seriously charmed before when you pretend two seconds doesn't matter (a lot) when finishing a charm fight.

I didn't say goblin ring was bad. Again you need to spend more time reading people's posts. I said the main benefit to Goblin Ring/Ring of Stealthy Travel is the mana saving and saving of a spell slot.

I've seen no evidence that shows instant casting specifically for invis is significant for charm breaks. I use the Goblin Ring for charming too. I know at least 2 seconds in advance when I need to break anyway. It's not difficult to predict. Ring of Stealthy travel is better because it's normal invis and self targeting, so it's more useful and you save time on target switching.

You are the one making the claim instant invis is significant for charm breaks. Yet you have no evidence to back it up. Baseless claims don't mean much. I've done plenty of charming and mob killing in general. You can predict 2 seconds ahead when a mob is almost dead.