Gearing a ranger

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your combat model is neither useful nor accurate. The difference between your estimate for the FM giants (34 vs 34.34) and your actual parsed results (30.67 DPS vs 31.5) is larger than the difference between the two sets of weapons. You also need to use the actual results (when you scale your Coroduth numbers by 30.67 / 55.7 to find that "mitigation offset" number). Any approach that needs the actual results when making an estimate is, to use a technical term, fucked beyond redemption.

It's both simpler and just as accurate to just calculate (2*damage + damage bonus) / delay as a way to compare different weapons. And if that gives you a result where two weapon-sets come out within a DPS or two, you can either treat them as equivalent or do the actual parsing to confirm.

You need to re-read my post, as you clearly didn't understand it. Please do not let your obvious biases cloud your ability to think, as you so often do. It doesn't help the conversations, or your understanding of the game.

Each mob has a different AC value, which isn't known to anybody but the devs of P99. Of course you need to get the actual results from each mob, because they have different AC values. These AC values will change the final result that skews the dice roll that determines which damage value to use (the mitigation offset).

Level difference is also a large factor in the equation. This is why Corudoth is a good mob to start with. A level 5 mob has a 55 level difference compared to a level 60, which will heavily skew the mitigation offset towards 1.0.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How are these numbers calculated?

The few I checked seem dmg x 2 + 11 (bonus at 60) / delay

For mainland that’s accurate using the common method.

Per level it changes though. That Lucy’s table seems accurate. It’s at least accurate per the few 2hs I’ve checked using bow crit math (hit - crit = damage bonus) at level 60.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your combat model is neither useful nor accurate. The difference between your estimate for the FM giants (34 vs 34.34) and your actual parsed results (30.67 DPS vs 31.5) is larger than the difference between the two sets of weapons. You also need to use the actual results (when you scale your Coroduth numbers by 30.67 / 55.7 to find that "mitigation offset" number). Any approach that needs the actual results when making an estimate is, to use a technical term, fucked beyond redemption.

It's both simpler and just as accurate to just calculate (2*damage + damage bonus) / delay as a way to compare different weapons. And if that gives you a result where two weapon-sets come out within a DPS or two, you can either treat them as equivalent or do the actual parsing to confirm.

Let me explain my post in a slightly different way, as you didn't seem to grasp the point of the post I made. Here is the post being referenced:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=440

We don't have all of the information for P99's damage formula and mob stats. Therefore we must backwards engineer this information using real data from mobs. When backwards engineering, you need to find a mob that can act as a control for the upper bounds of the proposed damage formula. Corudoth is a good mob to use for this, because it is level 5.

A 47 level difference will heavily skew the damage formula. This much as been observed by players time and time again. The data I provided also shows this. I did 55 DPS to Corudoth, and 30 DPS to the FM Giants. My DPS almost doubled when attacking a mob that was 47 levels below me compared to a mob that was only 2 levels below me. This shows how much level difference affects the damage formula.

Obviously the actual mitigation offset of Corudoth is not exactly 1.0. It's probably something like 0.9 or 0.95. Since I don't have Corudoth's exact stats or P99's damage formula, I set the mitigation offset to 1.0 on Corudoth for simplicity to show how the scaling works. This will skew the predicted DPS numbers to be a bit higher than the actual DPS numbers. This is why the predicted DPS for the FM giants was 34 instead of 30.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How are these numbers calculated?

(2*damage + damage bonus) / delay

Dmg bonus at 60. 2h uses the lucy damage charts to calculate 2h bonus. From my understanding that's the commonly used method of comparison.

I noticed for 2handers, usually just checking the ratio between weapons will give you a very good indicator of where they stand against eachother.

For 1h mainhand, speed matters a lot due to damage bonus and ratios are mostly useless.

[Snaggles]

At 60 the offhand swings 75% as much as the main hand. I spent half an hour on Bloodmaw parsing and that was the only thing I gleaned from it. Low 50’s I’d say 60% swing ratio is probably fairly close, if not 65%.

https://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html?setcookie=1

In general whenever it is close, the tie for me goes to 2h. My best DW and 2h setups on paper are within about 3% but in practice best vs best parsed the 2h is about 10% better. I wish it wasn’t the case…DW is certainly fun. Also, with a ranger often rooting and bowing a bit becomes part of your play. Or casting a spell or two. In either case bow damage is bonused from the MH weapon, yet delay isn’t affected by the MH. While casting and DW’ing you will swing as soon as you are done casting, even fast spells are tough to cast without it impacting your dps. It’s a reason these days I might consider an argent protector over a woodsman. With that I think Firestrike is viable to use when mana isn’t an issue (ie 7 min spawn camping).

Really the best thing is just compare with your own parse. Or without a program, see on average how much hp you end a fight with using each setup (or how much you damage the npc until rooting is needed). Most people will do this a couple times and then make a blanket assessment. Folks like bcbrown will end up with far more notes and the ability to draw objective conclusions for their own needs. Or at least it will help make the time go by which is 99% of EQ anyways [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] .

[Snaggles]

While leveling, I remember occasionally root-jousting for a Swarm slow and then switching to my dps weapon(s). Or just doing this with a lumpy 2h until I could reroot for more bowing. The Argent Protector or Herbalist Spade would be ace for this.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

keep swarmcaller around its fantastic for weird duos / trios

Absolutely. Right around when I first got my swarmcaller and was in CoM, I was in a group that I think was something like a rogue, an SK, and me. Think we had potg/c2 but no in-group healer. I would pull, swing till I procced a slow, then back off and heal the SK until it was time to pull the next one. I really love making a weird pug work.

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wouldn't over think droppable upgrades too much. I would just grind it out til raid loot. That's where all the fun upgrades are.

I think this is what I was really asking. I knew a woody was the best leveling weapon, but now that I'm in the 50s and raiding Kael and the planes is there a better setup? Seems like all the responses confirm my sense that no, until the nice raid loot the woody's gonna be Good Enough.

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Herbalist's spade is better than woodsman if you don't mind the root proc. Not by a huge marging so it depends on your budget. Argent protector is kinda nice with the 49dly for bowing if you're so inclined. Decent stats too. Not much worse than woodsman.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking. Out of those three I like the woody for roleplaying/aesthetic reasons, and I didn't think I was giving up enough DPS to regret that choice. I had a worn shai`din naginata before getting the woody, but eventually sold it because I figured the 41 delay on the swarmcaller was good enough for archery and it was nice not to have yet one more weapon in my bags.

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Rev whip is fun but in my experience wasn’t quite as good as a 10/18. I still use my mine on occasion just for fun.

It sure is fun but that's my experience too. Still glad I went to the effort to grab one, though.

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At 60 the offhand swings 75% as much as the main hand. I spent half an hour on Bloodmaw parsing and that was the only thing I gleaned from it. Low 50’s I’d say 60% swing ratio is probably fairly close, if not 65%.

My parsing across 30 minutes shows a 65% DW success rate.

[Keebz]

Get better haste. Off-hand epic is good and you'll want it anyway, but doesn't work with 2h, so maybe get a belt/back piece as well.

[kjs86z2]

No need to make this complicated. Woody + Swarmcaller + Seahorse belt is all you need til epics.

After epics save dkp for Melj + 41% haste if you wanna do big dick parses. If you don't care epics are completely fine. Velious was beat in Kunark gear.

[Snaggles]

DSM,

Not to slippery slope this, since dps always matters, but a ranger is a “greater than the sum of its parts” kind of class.

Outright ratio is great for end-game parsing but means less as you grind to 60. The toolbox of spells and skills is what makes the fun and the results. I had horrid gear and frankly learned a lot banging my head against the wall.

I’d never criticize the objective. At some point, it’s all that matters. Much of the ranger life is the underdog game though.

I’d be leaning to 2h mainly to avoid damage shield issues, or to maximize bow shot damage (as it’s less tolan bracer clicks). HP recovery is a real pain so it’s an important metric to keep in mind.