Moss covered Twig

[Zuranthium]

Mosscovered twig is supposed to be offhand only, what is this talk?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mosscovered twig is supposed to be offhand only, what is this talk?

I believe Mosscovered Twig was primary handed for a short period of time, before it gets removed from the drop table and nerfed to secondary only. Could be wrong though, never used one myself.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe Mosscovered Twig was primary handed for a short period of time

Yes but the servers are long past that era now. Why is it being discussed like it's an actual option.

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe Mosscovered Twig was primary handed for a short period of time, before it gets removed from the drop table and nerfed to secondary only. Could be wrong though, never used one myself.

The real question is, if it sucked, why was it removed? I remember the rumor back in the day was that it did ridiculous groundbreaking damage.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, they are independent of each other. How are you making a DPS calculator and saying this shit.

You misunderstood what I said. The Main Hand timer and the Off Hand timer are independent, but the only way an Off Hand Swing can be triggered is via a Main Hand Swing.

For example, Let's say you have a 20 Delay weapon in your Main Hand, and a 10 Delay weapon in your Off Hand:

0 Seconds - Main hand Swing Timer Started (Main hand weapon Swing)
0 Seconds - Off Hand Swing Timer Started (Dual Wield triggered, Off Hand weapon Swing)
1 Seconds - Off Hand Swing Timer Finished
2 Seconds - Main hand Swing Timer Finished
2 Seconds - Main hand Swing Timer Started (Main hand weapon Swing)
2 Seconds - Off Hand Swing Timer Started (Dual Wield triggered, Off Hand weapon Swing)
2 Seconds - Off Hand Swing Double Attack
2 Seconds - Off Hand Swing Triple Attack
etc.

The Off Hand timer finishes before the Main Hand timer, because the Off Hand weapon delay is faster. However, Off Hand Swings require a Main Hand Swing first to check whether dual wield triggers or not. This means there is no normal way to get a second Off Hand Swing between 1 second and 2 seconds, even though the Off Hand timer is ready. The exception to this would be if you get a dual wield trigger from a riposte between 1 and 2 seconds, as ripostes can happen asynchronously to your Main Hand Swings. You can also double/triple attack with an Off Hand Swing, but that wouldn't happen between 1 second and 2 seconds. It would happen at the same time as the Off Hand Swing.

You can test this yourself in P99 by doing Fistweaving on a Monk with a 2h weapon that has a higher delay than your fists. Or use a weapon like Wurmslayer in your Main Hand, and a really fast weapon in your Off Hand. You usually won't get more dual wield attempts than your dual wield percentage chance, unless perhaps you get very lucky with both dual wield triggers and Off Hand double/triple attacks. This is because every time you Swing your Main Hand, you have an X% chance to trigger dual wield, where that percent chance is based on your dual wield skill.

If you could get multiple Off Hand Swings (that are not double/triple attacks) in between Main Hand Swings by using a faster Off Hand weapon, you would see a higher volume of dual wield triggers than your dual wield percentage chance.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Main Hand timer and the Off Hand timer are independent, but the only way an Off Hand Swing can be triggered is via a Main Hand Swing.

Wrong. Unless something is messed up in the p99 code right now. Otherwise you would never be able to hold a non-weapon in your primary hand and perma auto-attack with the offhand, which is supposed to be possible. Or be able to manually press to swing the offhand weapon only when you want (without auto-attack on), which is supposed to be possible.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Main Hand timer and the Off Hand timer are independent, but the only way an Off Hand Swing can be triggered is via a Main Hand Swing.

This is definitely wrong, but it does explain some of the more baffling computational errors DSM has made in the past.

[Samoht]

Back on topic:

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(weapdmg x2 +db)/dly

Using the correct formula for weapon DPS/hate, the Adamantite Club is not even half as good as the Mosscovered Twig. The super speed means applying damage bonus much more frequently. This is the same reason that makes Nevederia's Horn the best warrior offhand weapon for tanking right now. Why Vyemm's Fang might sometimes parse better than Mrylokar's Dagger of Vengeance, and why it will beat it if you're weapon swapping when you backstab.

Mace of the Shadowed Souls is almost as good, not because it's fast, but because it hits hard.

But AClub is monk only, and MOSS is SK only, so both examples were completely irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Also, both were considerably harder to obtain as level 50s in classic gear entering into Kunark, so the whole risk vs reward thing meant that MOSS was in a good spot while the twig was too available.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Using the correct formula for weapon DPS/hate, the Adamantite Club is not even half as good as the Mosscovered Twig.

Typoed the math on this (entered wrong ratio on AClub), and it is as good as twig, but still monk only.

Both Wavecrasher and Frostbringer are very close in hate per swing to the twig. The procs should push them over. I personally have a strong dislike for the Wavecrasher, though, because the premium cost. I understand that it's difficult to obtain, but the slow is not very good.

As a note, adding haste does not appear to change the ratings to make one weapon more viable than the other because the increase from haste is flat across all ratios. Hasted twig vs hasted frosty vs hasted wavecrasher are still in same order as long as the haste is the same.

[Goregasmic]

Twig as a secondary weapon has a 0.3 ratio and is fucking terrible by any metric at this point, assumed OP asked about its original form.

But considering he's comparing it to velious weaps, yeah, makes no sense.