Discussion: Play Nice (Training, Bind Camping)

[Envious]

Originally Posted by Pudge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

him and searyx are best bros

5 post!!!!!!!!!!!!


Neg, we have had it out on several occasions, but I understand where his arguments come from, and dont let past stupid shit from VZ/TZ cloud what he says. And he seems to do the same (not sure if he is sure who I am or not, and it really doesnt matter) for me.

For instance, he rock'd the VZ/TZ box with some bad calls... loot tables etc. Shit happens, he wanted to bottleneck gear cause server was getting flooded. And we had some times where I got banned from VZ/TZ forums for flaming him.

But when I saw him on P99, I tossed him 2500plat, and some newbie items for the TZT crew.

What was the saying that guy had in his VZ/TZ forum sig? "SZ might have been the hardest, VZ might have been the most skilled, RZ might have been the original, but TZ was the best"? I would help anyone from TZ on this EMU server.

Now, time to dick the wife down, and crash.

[Xantille]

Let me write this in a way you can understand, Envious.

~~~~~~Points in favor of allowing training:~~~~~~

1) Training was permitted on live~

2) Training will cause GM's innumerable headaches, cause people to quit, GM favoritism, etc~


#1 is patently false. If enough people cried, people still got banned on live (see: Keldorn, Erondiel's shitty ass monk who trained PDM in Kael, etc)~

#2 is the stronger argument, but I think Searyx addressed it fairly well. GM's shouldn't police training unless they are present at the fight, OR they see a crystal clear case via FRAPS (example = guild is at north wall in Fear, monk zones in and brings a shit ton of mobs with no intention of fighting)~

Those are the only two situations where I would want a rule against training enforced. Generally, every guild has someone running fraps~

And please, because you claim to come from a PvP server: do you really think allowing training is going to help the population more than policing training is going to hurt it?

Oh, I almost forgot: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Pudge]

Originally Posted by Xantille [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

all you needed to say.

[Pudge]

he played emu pvp for a whole year!

[Buhbuh]

Within the contexts of the idea discussed, if you were someone who barely played emu's or wasn't familiar with EQlive at all, that makes who you are an entirely relevant thing.

Searyx and I go back too, but his experience running a server/ being well versed in coding/ being in top guilds on emu servers is not really a crutch I use to self-validate on a position I take.

Whatevs though. Your point is the burden of proof regarding intent. It can be found in certain circumstances. I doubt it will be a common thing, but if GM's want to give it an unbiased shot, let 'em, I say. We understand that the inverse of that is being falsely accused and consequently banned or shunned for something one didn't do. But that's not a terrible concern if you're not a dick hole that likes and/ or views training as natural. And it is in some ways, but in other ways it's fucked. I'm sure GM's understand that.

[Envious]

Originally Posted by Buhbuh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whatevs though. Your point is the burden of proof regarding intent. It can be found in certain circumstances. I doubt it will be a common thing, but if GM's want to give it an unbiased shot, let 'em, I say. We understand that the inverse of that is being falsely accused and consequently banned or shunned for something one didn't do. But that's not a terrible concern if you're not a dick hole that likes and/ or views training as natural. And it is in some ways, but in other ways it's fucked. I'm sure GM's understand that.

Right, and I am advocating zero GM interaction regarding any PnP. On a Live server, or with completely unbiased / governed / supervised / professional in game GM staffing its one thing... but when the staff is just people that put in free time, likely have friends on the server, or even their own chars... You start to get all the forum drama regarding favoritism, corruption, friends, donations etc etc.

This is the point that Lethdar seems to have skipped in the past 10+ pages, and why his responses are total shit.

[Buhbuh]

Originally Posted by Envious [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right, and I am advocating zero GM interaction regarding any PnP. On a Live server, or with completely unbiased / governed / supervised / professional in game GM staffing its one thing... but when the staff is just people that put in free time, likely have friends on the server, or even their own chars... You start to get all the forum drama regarding favoritism, corruption, friends, donations etc etc.

This is the point that Lethdar seems to have skipped in the past 10+ pages, and why his responses are total shit.

I wouldn't make the mistake of speculating on the ethical decisions/ choices made by Rogean and comparing them to someone like Voidd or any other developers we've run through the ringer that have, as a fundamental difference, not only wanted to create a server, but play on them as if they were their playgrounds too.

I get the cynicism, but this is a different set of guys running things here. Most developers or players had a conflict of interest to begin with and should never have been chosen to represent the past servers, let alone uphold their integrity (Zenaitha, that hacking Cleric guy in my guild, the high elf? etc). But I'm not inductively going to say that because it happened all the fucking time in the past, that it's necessarily doomed to happen here. Those people who pulled part of the PvP community to play as guides were misguided, to put it lightly.

[Envious]

QUAD POST!

Fuk'd up the first one... replace YT with Training... long day. Hold on, wait... his points seem to be more slanted towards YT in that post... and not PnP / Training...

Am I missing some post of his where he blows the argument out of the water?

Sleeping.

[Pudge]

hey hey, anyone who hosts a server like that deserves some respect. voidd wasn't always around, but i doubt he played a char himself. he was barely even available to upkeep the server with all the shit he had going on.

give some respect! remember who brought you, and us all, where we are today


edit: also keegan.

[Envious]

Originally Posted by Pudge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

hey hey, anyone who hosts a server like that deserves some respect. voidd wasn't always around, but i doubt he played a char himself. he was barely even available to upkeep the server with all the shit he had going on.

give some respect! remember who brought you, and us all, where we are today

And handed out items, breaking the last illusion of a legit server.