Player Agreement: Rule Change at the DS Camp

[Digz]

I've seen "first come first served" tossed out in here. In the case of 24 hour camps by mega-guilds, it's not that. It's an "Our guild was here first, we're gonna swap in/out players as we see fit and block others from getting this". There's literally 0% chance of getting these things if you're not part of the team that's blocking everyone else.

Those of you who played in 1999 would remember that camps weren't held by guilds, they were held by a 6 player group from whatever affiliation, one person leaves, next person on a manually maintained list joins, loot given in order. People in the group usually had a pencil and paper with them to track the list and ensure fairness.

As Berbax also said, there have been a ton of player-made rule changes in the name of fairness and to prevent just such scenarios. Look at lists, Scout, Angry, racing to Vindi, Vulak, etc. The precedent exists.

Does anyone want this server to devolve to the point of 3 or 4 guilds owning everything and the rest of the players settling for the scraps? That's where it's headed, very very quickly.

[fortior]

Originally Posted by Digz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does anyone want this server to devolve to the point of 3 or 4 guilds owning everything and the rest of the players settling for the scraps? That's where it's headed, very very quickly.

Guildless players don’t even deserve scraps. Let them starve.

[Otsego]

Originally Posted by Digz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've seen "first come first served" tossed out in here. In the case of 24 hour camps by mega-guilds, it's not that. It's an "Our guild was here first, we're gonna swap in/out players as we see fit and block others from getting this". There's literally 0% chance of getting these things if you're not part of the team that's blocking everyone else.

This is how anything works. If someone is camping something and they are maintaining that camp, then in most cases you cannot camp the same thing at that time.. it's currently their turn.

There is no goal of "block others from getting this", or at least there isn't among all groups (I can't speak for the other groups), but just because that is the outcome of someone camping an item doesn't mean their goal is to block others.

Yes, there is 0% chance to get the thing you want while another person is camping it. That isn't exclusive to this camp, so let's not pretend it is.

Originally Posted by Digz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Those of you who played in 1999 would remember that camps weren't held by guilds, they were held by a 6 player group from whatever affiliation, one person leaves, next person on a manually maintained list joins, loot given in order. People in the group usually had a pencil and paper with them to track the list and ensure fairness.

I don't remember this at all. There was no structure like this back when I played on live. There was no queue and first-in-first-out style system. If you joined a group and something dropped you randomed for it. On my server you would /rand 200 300 since they had some conspiracy about numbers below that being biased. Lose the random? You don't get the item you want - tough. Someone new joins the group and beats you on the random - tough. The dice decide your fate.

Some people ran NBG (need before greed) style groups with different rules, but it definitely wasn't the norm.

But player-held structured and ordered lists? I never saw this on live servers, sorry. The closest to that was a camp holder saying you can have the camp next once they're done with it.

Originally Posted by Digz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does anyone want this server to devolve to the point of 3 or 4 guilds owning everything and the rest of the players settling for the scraps? That's where it's headed, very very quickly.

Feels like some bias mixed with being overly dramatic. I can't speak for all groups, but at least one only formed because of the contested system that requires the player to clear all the golems before the camp respawns.

Most people will need help to do that, so to do that they will call their friends to help secure the contested camp. No one wants to be forced to clear for 8/12/16/24 hours, even if they have the ability to do so. Especially if RNG is involved (feign death, pacify, charm, etc).

Once people help they become invested in the camp and are more likely to stick around, even if it's just to help against the contesting players, or even to spite them. Suddenly you have posts about a "guild owning everything and the rest of the players settling for the scraps"? Please. How about you try considering perspectives outside yourself.

Berbax, while a nice person, did almost nothing but say "clear pls" for hours on end. They are part of the toxicity and the problem. They are part of the reason anyone else holding the camp needs their friends/guilds to support them.

[enjchanter]

Nah u guys didn't want instances so you don't got instances

Enjoy suffering

[Digz]

Interesting you assume that just because someone isn't in Kingdom, GG, Castle... that means they're guildless.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Digz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Interesting you assume that just because someone isn't in Kingdom, GG, Castle... that means they're guildless.

They basically are

[fortior]

Originally Posted by Digz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Interesting you assume that just because someone isn't in Kingdom, GG, Castle... that means they're guildless.

Solo artists can do their thing but this is a social game and it’s them who should adapt. We don’t need more specific rules for specific camps because enchanters want to solo things. Also, DS isn’t even a hard solo artist encounter, it’s just a 250k plat MQ and OP obviously wants it.

We also have precedence with small non raiding guilds not mattering: ragefire, a mob you can duo or kill with a small group, is a draftable mob which means non draft entities are blocked from killing it during the draft even if they could. Same goes for solo enchanters and hate minis during draft, etc.

Nobody should care about solo enchanters, already the most overpowered class, whining that they have to compete against teamwork.

[berbax]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Solo artists can do their thing but this is a social game and it’s them who should adapt. We don’t need more specific rules for specific camps because enchanters want to solo things. Also, DS isn’t even a hard solo artist encounter, it’s just a 250k plat MQ and OP obviously wants it.

We also have precedence with small non raiding guilds not mattering: ragefire, a mob you can duo or kill with a small group, is a draftable mob which means non draft entities are blocked from killing it during the draft even if they could. Same goes for solo enchanters and hate minis during draft, etc.

Nobody should care about solo enchanters, already the most overpowered class, whining that they have to compete against teamwork.

Your response contains several misconceptions that I’d like to address:

At the time of my recording, it was well-known among those present that my goal was the solo artist achievement, not obtaining the urn for monetary gain. My focus has always been on challenging myself, not on the item’s market value.

As others and I have stated, specific rules for certain camps already exist to address unique challenges and maintain fairness. The DS camp is no different and would benefit from similar regulation to prevent monopolization and ensure equitable access.

It's important to understand that P99 is locked in an early era of EQ where its stagnation exacerbates itemization problems because the game is no longer progressing with expansions and new content. Unlike the original game, where the introduction of new expansions shifted player focus and demand for items, P99 will see perpetual high demand for specific items. This static nature creates a highly competitive environment where a few players or groups can monopolize valuable camps indefinitely, leading to the issues we are discussing. Implementing rules like a list/roll system is a necessary adaptation to these unique circumstances, ensuring that all players have a fair chance at acquiring important items, especially ones that are good for every single class.

I also encourage you to revisit the previous points made in this discussion, as these issues have been elaborated on in great detail.

Lastly, playing an enchanter at the DS camp requires a higher skill level, and it’s not as simple as using beads, feign death, and flying kick like a highly geared monk. While it may seem that enchanters have it easier, the reality is that their success demands precise skill and strategy, making them one of the higher skill, high reward classes in the game.

[sajbert]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it’s just a 250k plat MQ

[Digz]

@fortior @ripqozko If you're joking at least have the decency to put a laughing emoji. If not then... wow.