Player Agreement: Rule Change at the DS Camp

[Ruien]

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ruien, I appreciate your perspective, but there are a points and misconceptions to fix. The goal isn’t just to lower prices but to ensure fair access. Monopolization restricts access and creates unfair conditions where only those with excessive time can benefit. Fairness means everyone, regardless of their available time or money, has a chance.

An equity-based system like URN might break the monopoly, but it still doesn’t address the core issue of restricted access, or high prices (from what I understand). A roll or list system democratizes access, giving more players a fair shot without excluding anyone based on their time or wealth. Again, I'm not an expert on what you guys are advocating, but it appears to be met with mixed reviews. Even the poll image posted in a previous comment highlights that.

This isn’t about removing camping from the game. It’s about making the process healthier and more accessible. Fair systems enhance gameplay by allowing more players to participate meaningfully without promoting unhealthy behavior.

Lastly, random rolls aren’t foreign to EQ. They’ve been used successfully in other camps to ensure fairness and reduce toxic behavior. This discussion is about creating a fair and healthy environment, not just about item prices.

Hold on - I just don't get this point. What do you mean that URN doesn't address the core issue of restricted access?

I'm talking about URN network as literally free for anyone to join, who can log hours on their own schedule, and over a few months of camping with friends you will eventually be able to loot an Urn, and that urn can be either used or sold per your preference. How does that prevent participation?

[Otsego]

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Monopolization restricts access and creates unfair conditions where only those with excessive time can benefit. Fairness means everyone, regardless of their available time or money, has a chance.

Simply not true, we have multiple teammates that only contribute a few minutes or a few hours of their time. There is no demand for excessive time.

Like most other things in life though, the more time you devote to something, the faster progress you will make over someone else, but that doesn't mean it's a requirement.

This is just a scare tactic - manipulation

[Otsego]

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

An equity-based system like URN might break the monopoly, but it still doesn’t address the core issue of restricted access, or high prices (from what I understand).

Who was it that told you everything in EQ is meant to be unrestricted access?

The game is literally increasingly difficult encounters meant to restrict access until you become strong enough or are a part of a team strong enough to clear the content.

Can't do Kurns Tower naturally at level 8? Try leveling up to 11-12 or joining a group if only level 8.. suddenly the "restricted" zone becomes a lot more doable doesn't it?

You're seemingly pushing back against the thing that makes EQ what it is. Why?


As for high prices.. that's not going to change. Fixed supply, increasing demand.

I'd hate to break the bad news to you, but even if your lottery system is implemented.. some of the winners are not going to sell their urns..

Those urns are either going to be used and turned in by the winner, or remain unused in their banks.

The demand for them far outweighs the supply and that's never going to change.

It's a BIS item - it wasn't intended to be had by everyone. That's why it's on a 24 hour spawn and not a 20 minute and 30 second one.

[fortior]

It doesn't directly and unequivocally support what the OP wants so it's wrong and bad

[berbax]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It doesn't directly and unequivocally support what the OP wants so it's wrong and bad

Fortior, it’s not about dismissing ideas that don’t directly support my viewpoint. The goal is to create a fair and healthy environment for all players. The URN network on Blue’s server, while promising, has received mixed reviews and hasn’t yet shown the broad support needed to be a definitive solution.

I’m open to revising the player agreement if there’s significant community backing for it. Until then, proposing a roll or list system is about ensuring fairness and reducing monopolization, which benefits everyone. Misrepresenting my motives as simply wanting support for my ideas is unhelpful and divisive.

Let’s focus on finding the best solution for the community rather than making incorrect assumptions about each other’s motives. Thanks for engaging in the discussion.

[Ruien]

What I am hearing is that the OP has more money than time, and so he is fighting for a system that produces the cheapest possible Urn MQs, at the expense of locking out people who would prefer to camp the item instead of buy it.

[berbax]

Originally Posted by Ruien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What I am hearing is that the OP has more money than time, and so he is fighting for a system that produces the cheapest possible Urn MQs, at the expense of locking out people who would prefer to camp the item instead of buy it.

Ruien, your assumption is incorrect. I was at the DS camp every day for two weeks trying to get an opportunity for my DS attempt (please refer to my original post). I don’t have the money to buy an urn (as many others don't either), and I’m advocating for a fairer system to give more players a chance to participate without monopolization.

At this point the conversation is going in circles a bit, so if there's something new you want clarification on, let me know. Thanks for your feedback

[Otsego]

Originally Posted by berbax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ruien, your assumption is incorrect. I was at the DS camp every day for two weeks trying to get an opportunity for my DS attempt (please refer to my original post).

"I went to a camp each day wanting to solo it and it was already camped."

Welcome to Everquest

Instancing is the solution you want, but it isn't a classic feature. Project Quarm and other servers do have instancing though. Without that, you have to wait for the camp to be unclamped so that you can claim it.

You'd still be camping a 24 hour spawn though.. as a solo player..

Really, the answer here is you need a team to help you.

You instead choose to both not join a team and then claim a 24 hour spawn is unhealthy..

[Lynch]

I aint going to read the whole thread so bare with me if some of this has already gone over.

There's a lot of conflicting requests in OP. The content is trivial, yet when you had the camp and were 'pressured' into clearing the room (which, on blue, is the rule to maintain camp) and you had to cap. You want to solo content, but play an mmo. You're a 'solo artist' but refuse to suffer for your art.

What do you think is going to happen if the rule gets turned into rolls? "Hey guys I just want to solo her, you can log off" sorry that happened recently on blue, and that guild got SUCH a stern warning.

If you want to solo her as an achievement, fine, but being unable and unwilling to cooperate with others to help you achieve that goal (like many others camping ds) isnt what everquest is about (unless it's due to time and availability, and it's your last piece, then it's grats bladefrenzy.) You might want to look into switching your guild or earn social credit with others to help you achieve this goal.


As a rebuttal to your claims:

Player Health: The current situation promotes unhealthy gaming habits, with players camping DS non-stop.

You're right camping non stop is unhealthy, probably why you should have friends and cooperate by rotating for breaks.

Toxicity: The high competition and harassment, as exemplified by my experiences with "Good Guys," foster a toxic environment.

Cant say for green but the only way to counter this is to beat them at their own game, maneuver around them, and dont cause conflict.

Fair Access: The DS camp’s urn is valuable for all classes, similar to other high-demand items like Journeyman Boots. Current rules allow high-end guilds to monopolize the camp, excluding others.

At least on blue, when the current occupant gets their drop then they should rotate to the next in line. Can they lie and say they never get an urn? yes but that would be fraud and bannable under pnp, if you think that could be the case I'm sure guides would love to intermittently sleuth on drops.

Economic Impact: The urn sells for approximately 250k on the green server, and monopolization by a few guilds may drive real-money trading (RMT) influences.

'May' is the key word here, do you have evidence of this RMTing? It is a rare and valuable drop, like many other raid obtained droppable gear. What evidence is there that this won't make the price worse? Head of Skargus MQ is last listed at 125k on green and it's a prereq for urn turn in.

Balancing Gameplay: DS camp difficulty is now trivial, making a list/line/roll system more reasonable and beneficial for a fair distribution of opportunities.

We went over this, it's not trivial, you capped out, you've stated that groups have wiped multiple times to just continually clearing the room.

[berbax]

Originally Posted by Lynch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I aint going to read the whole thread so bare with me if some of this has already gone over.

There's a lot of conflicting requests in OP. The content is trivial, yet when you had the camp and were 'pressured' into clearing the room (which, on blue, is the rule to maintain camp) and you had to cap. You want to solo content, but play an mmo. You're a 'solo artist' but refuse to suffer for your art.

What do you think is going to happen if the rule gets turned into rolls? "Hey guys I just want to solo her, you can log off" sorry that happened recently on blue, and that guild got SUCH a stern warning.

If you want to solo her as an achievement, fine, but being unable and unwilling to cooperate with others to help you achieve that goal (like many others camping ds) isnt what everquest is about (unless it's due to time and availability, and it's your last piece, then it's grats bladefrenzy.) You might want to look into switching your guild or earn social credit with others to help you achieve this goal.


As a rebuttal to your claims:


You're right camping non stop is unhealthy, probably why you should have friends and cooperate by rotating for breaks.


Cant say for green but the only way to counter this is to beat them at their own game, maneuver around them, and dont cause conflict.


At least on blue, when the current occupant gets their drop then they should rotate to the next in line. Can they lie and say they never get an urn? yes but that would be fraud and bannable under pnp, if you think that could be the case I'm sure guides would love to intermittently sleuth on drops.


'May' is the key word here, do you have evidence of this RMTing? It is a rare and valuable drop, like many other raid obtained droppable gear. What evidence is there that this won't make the price worse? Head of Skargus MQ is last listed at 125k on green and it's a prereq for urn turn in.


We went over this, it's not trivial, you capped out, you've stated that groups have wiped multiple times to just continually clearing the room.

Thanks for your input, sorry but many of these points have been discussed in great detail so I likely won't go over them again. I will say "trivial" meaning, anyone with 1-2 friends can do this, a solo artist has it on a hard difficulty for a reason.