Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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Agreed. Your idea that you can simply state something is true without anything to back it up is a joke. Unfortunately trolling isn't valid evidence either, even though that is a common tactic of yours.

[Troxx]

11 pages? This is nothing. We got us another DSM thread!

Key take home points:

-JBB is, at best, marginally useful other than PLing the late 40s and early 50s
-Racial regen > FSI
-the best solo artist shaman was a barbarian
-iksar shaman will do great

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

11 pages? This is nothing. We got us another DSM thread!

Key take home points:

-JBB is, at best, marginally useful other than PLing the late 40s and early 50s
-Racial regen > FSI

Please stop lying. Trolling and lying helps nobody. These two statements are trivial to disprove. Why are you so destructive?

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

These two statements are trivial to disprove.

Given that we're at something of an impasse regarding the latter statement, I'd be very interested in seeing you disprove the former statement. And I'm not talking about mathematical notation; any format will do. For what target is JBB necessary?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Given that we're at something of an impasse regarding the latter statement, I'd be very interested in seeing you disprove the former statement. And I'm not talking about mathematical notation; any format will do. For what target is JBB necessary?

I didn't say JBB was necessary to kill mobs. That doesn't make it useless. No Shaman racial item gives you the ability to kill a specific mob that you normally couldn't. This means you simply need to look at which racial item gives you the most use comparatively.

When it comes to leveling, JBB can take you from 45-60 if you don't have Epic. Claiming it is only good from 45-51 is nonsensical.

Spamming a manaless clickie nuke like JBB is more efficient than using your mana DoTs to kill mobs. It's the same reason why Epic is a good leveling tool.

Spamming JBB is 32 DPS, and a hasted level 55 pet is roughly 17 DPS. Epic DoT is almost 16 DPS. Pet + JBB spam is the equivalent of Epic DoTing 3 mobs at a time. Just like using Epic to DoT mobs, this strategy is manaless in terms of the DPS.

Without Epic, root rotting three mobs at a time takes a minimum of 300 mana for roots, and 320 mana x 6 = 1920 mana for Dots. That is 2220 mana per 3 mobs.

JBB spam + pet + slow + face tanking costs 250 mana per mob, and some damage taken per mob. That is 750 mana total, and some damage.

If Troxx wants to show JBB becomes useless 51+, they need to show a more efficient strategy in terms of DPS vs. mana/hp spent for leveling. As per usual, Troxx is unwilling and probably unable to do this.

When you hit level 60, JBB is still a good tool. It saves you mana when clearing trash mobs in lower level dungeons. It is a good way to finish a mob at 2 or 3 percent instead of wasting the mana on a fresh DoT. It provides free damage in long fights when all debuffs and dots have been applied.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please stop lying. Trolling and lying helps nobody. These two statements are trivial to disprove. Why are you so destructive?

Examples of there being situations where FSI may be more useful than regen is certainly evidence for the case, but it doesn't disprove regen being being better than FSI.

Saying FSI helps you solo dragons at 60 better than regen may be true, but so is the fact that a rusty halberd helps bowquest better than any ToV melee weapon (due to how damage bonus works). I think we can agree just because we have an example of rusty halberd being better than tov weapons doesn't disprove the assertion that ToV weapons are better than rusty halberds.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Examples of there being situations where FSI may be more useful than regen is certainly evidence for the case, but it doesn't disprove regen being being better than FSI.

Saying FSI helps you solo dragons at 60 better than regen may be true, but so is the fact that a rusty halberd helps bowquest better than any ToV melee weapon (due to how damage bonus works). I think we can agree just because we have an example of rusty halberd being better than tov weapons doesn't disprove the assertion that ToV weapons are better than rusty halberds.

The issue is you haven't proven Regen is better than FSI to begin with. You cannot simply assume this is the case for whatever reason.

Thus far I have provided a lot more evidence showing FSI is the Min/Max option than the opposition. It is easy to rebut the claims put forth so far from the opposition with math and evidence too.

This is the problem, you are claiming Regen has already been proven to be better than FSI without merit, and this makes no sense. Nobody has actually done this.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The issue is you haven't proven Regen is better than FSI to begin with. You cannot simply assume this is the case for whatever reason.

Thus far I have provided a lot more evidence showing FSI is the Min/Max option than the opposition. It is easy to rebut the claims put forth so far from the opposition with math and evidence too.

This is the problem, you are claiming Regen has already been proven to be better than FSI without merit, and this makes no sense. Nobody has actually done this.

I'm not assuming regen is better - my position is the assumptions / value judgements / aims / motivations of each player will result in different answers for which racial is best.

The only way to get a one-size-fits-all 'best' is to be too reductionist in assumptions.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Key take home points:

-JBB is, at best, marginally useful other than PLing the late 40s and early 50s
-Racial regen > FSI
-the best solo artist shaman was a barbarian
-iksar shaman will do great

I can repeat myself too!

Honorable mention argument is that barbarian is actually the best choice for the following reasons

-you have a bear hat
-you’re a polar bear in bear form
-you level to 60 faster significantly faster

Supporting data (100% true):

-at 60 there is literally nothing you cannot do or solo easily as any race. If you can do it on a troll/iksar/ogre you can do it just as easily on a barbarian.
-faster to 60 is bigger jumpstart on the endgame power curve (gear/farming/etc)

/thread

Ps: FSI is almost as overrated as JBB.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can repeat myself too!

You do indeed like to repeat bad trolls and nonsense.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

-at 60 there is literally nothing you cannot do or solo easily as any race. If you can do it on a troll/iksar/ogre you can do it just as easily on a barbarian.
-faster to 60 is bigger jumpstart on the endgame power curve (gear/farming/etc)
Ps: FSI is almost as overrated as JBB.

All of these points are trivial to disprove.

Whether or not you can do more content at 60 is irrelevant to which racial is factually better. FSI gives you a bigger bonus than Iksar/Troll Regen at level 60 with Torpor, and therefore it is better for Min/Maxing.

Leveling speed is not relevant to what is Min/Max. Changing the default definition of Min/Max is not the correct way to win the debate. You clearly know the actual definition of Min/Max, because you agree Iksar Monks are better than Human Monks. The Min/Max definition used to arrive at this conclusion is the same Min/Max definition used to figure out which Shaman racial is best. You cannot have it both ways.

Troxx still has not provided any evidence to support his claims about JBB, and it is easy to disprove his nonsensical idea that JBB is useless levels 50+ with basic math.

Unfortunately Troxx can only provide "I am right and you are wrong" statements and silly gifs. Sadly this is not an argument.