Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Thanks for the reply!

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Realistically, you get the best gear by raiding. The most effective raiding setup is to actually be raiding, which requires being high level, which requires getting to high level. Being at raid level for a longer period of time is therefore a stronger boost to character performance than any of the other racials.

The time you need to spend on raiding is more based on luck than on leveling efficiency. Drop rate and your guild's ability to consistently kill the targets you want is the biggest factor. You could cheat at the game and get a level 60 instantly, and still spend more time in total getting full BiS gear than another player who took 6 months to level to 60.

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

None of the other racials have a meaningful impact outside soloing, but soloing is generally not a mix-max approach vs. raiding anyway. Its fine for FSI to be better at soloing, though that hasn't been proven (especially vs. Iksar, with both AC and regen benefits potentially increasing the steady-state damage taken). But that's not a min-max setup even if it is due to lack of contribution to small group content and raiding situations.

So far I have provided a lot more evidence to support FSI is better than Regen at level 60 with Torpor than the opposition. Whether you are soloing, grouping, or raiding, racial regeneration provides little benefit to a Torpor Shaman.

Racials do indeed matter the most when soloing. Shamans are one of the classes that can solo, group, and raid equally well. Many people pick classes like Shaman or Enchanter specifically because they can solo with their character when groups/raids are not available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq39ybDWx-k - Here is an example of a simulated raid buffing session buffing 10 people. Racial Regeneration would save a Shaman 30 seconds at best for recovery time, which is not going to help the raid in any meaningful way. No competent raid is Shaman buffing 10 people 30 seconds before a big fight.

You can extrapolate these raid results to group play as well. Can you think of a time where you spent this much mana in a 12 minute period in a group? If not, then you would realize that you probably aren't even getting 30 seconds of improved recovery time per hour in a group, as you are more likely to be at full mana and hp. The nice thing about groups is they split the duties.

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even solo, you have to have enough cases over the course of your career where FSI saves you in a solo camp situation to make up for the additional time spent being able to solo camp by being at 60 with Torpor earlier. I am extremely skeptical this is the case for anyone, especially anyone who does not play 40+ hours/week.

If FSI causes your success rate on killing Ayllish to go from 78%->81% or similar level of impact, but Barb XP bonus let you hit 60 and camp 25 extra Ayllishes before you would have as an Ogre, you have to do 833 Ayllishes before you pull ahead on the Ogre. At that point you're starting to get into "CHA is optimal warrior starting stats bc DI" levels of Min-Maxery that, while technically true, don't apply to anyone who isn't playing for tens of thousands of hours.

You have to quantify somehow how much this is helping before being able to confidently assert you're actually ahead vs. the Barb XP bonus on a given amount of time invested playing, you can't just say that its better so is obviously superior.

Min/Max is not about how quickly it takes to level. It is about how effective your character is in the endgame. This is because leveling speed is mostly a factor of how you play, rather than what racial bonuses you have. Ogre/Troll/Iksar Shamans have leveled faster than Barbarians due to twinking, play time, effective leveling strategies, etc. If you really want to level to 60 ASAP, there are better ways than simply picking Barbarian when you create your new Shaman.

If you are a casual player who only plays a few hours a day, you are playing the game inefficiently anyway. There is no way you can "Min/Max leveling" by doing this. It doesn't really make sense to say "Barbarians are the Min/Max race for leveling inefficiently". At that point you could make a "Min/Max" for every possible thing a player could do. This would completely destroy the normal definition of "Min/Max", because nobody knows what you are trying to "Min/Max". By default Min/Max means the best possible character you could create, assuming you got to level 60, have the best gear, and have all your spells. Ogre is the best Min/Max Shaman due to FSI.

[7thGate]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Min/Max is not about how quickly it takes to level. It is about how effective your character is in the endgame. This is because leveling speed is mostly a factor of how you play, rather than what racial bonuses you have. Ogre/Troll/Iksar Shamans have leveled faster than Barbarians due to twinking, play time, effective leveling strategies, etc. If you really want to level to 60 ASAP, there are better ways than simply picking Barbarian when you create your new Shaman.

Whatever you do to XP though, and there are different methods that will vary in speed, you do it 20% faster on a Barbarian. Its much more debateable how much regen improves things vs. FSI, but the Barb should definitely be much ahead of the Ogre.

Almost nobody reaches actual end game everquest, where you're BIS and have no more progression. End Game for most people is raiding with some mix of high end/BIS pieces, or farming items. You're going to be ahead by some noticeable amount on both of these goals if you're using a Barbarian vs. an Ogre, and it will likely take a very substantial amount of time for the Ogre to catch up.

They will never catch up in a raiding context until you reach BIS, you will always be a fixed amount of DKP ahead on the Barbarian until you run out of things to spend DKP on. If there is a quantifiable difference in farming speed or success rate with having FSI they will eventually catch up with the Barbarian's head start, but it needs to be quantified to see whether it is actually reasonable for that to happen.

As a more concrete example of what I'm talking about, if you ask the question "which race lets me farm the most stuff by 2030 on this new shaman I'm making", the answer is probably Barbarian. I'm really skeptical that the other racials do enough to make up for having potentially weeks of additional time with Torpor.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whatever you do to XP though, and there are different methods that will vary in speed, you do it 20% faster on a Barbarian. Its much more debateable how much regen improves things vs. FSI, but the Barb should definitely be much ahead of the Ogre.

Almost nobody reaches actual end game everquest, where you're BIS and have no more progression. End Game for most people is raiding with some mix of high end/BIS pieces, or farming items. You're going to be ahead by some noticeable amount on both of these goals if you're using a Barbarian vs. an Ogre, and it will likely take a very substantial amount of time for the Ogre to catch up.

They will never catch up in a raiding context until you reach BIS, you will always be a fixed amount of DKP ahead on the Barbarian until you run out of things to spend DKP on. If there is a quantifiable difference in farming speed or success rate with having FSI they will eventually catch up with the Barbarian's head start, but it needs to be quantified to see whether it is actually reasonable for that to happen.

As a more concrete example of what I'm talking about, if you ask the question "which race lets me farm the most stuff by 2030 on this new shaman I'm making", the answer is probably Barbarian. I'm really skeptical that the other racials do enough to make up for having potentially weeks of additional time with Torpor.

Again, Min/Max is not about leveling speed. That isn't the normal definition for any item based game like Everquest where you get to max level and then play the endgame. In a game like Everquest plenty of people play the endgame longer than the leveling game.

Changing the definition of Min/Max to "who can level the fastest" is not the correct way to approach this debate.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you are a casual player who only plays a few hours a day, you are playing the game inefficiently anyway. There is no way you can "Min/Max leveling" by doing this.

What's the most efficient number of hours per day to spend playing EQ?

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's the most efficient number of hours per day to spend playing EQ?

72 - play a toon on all 3 p99 servers concurrently.

[Toxigen]

jesus christ lmao

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

jesus christ lmao

Agreed. It doesn't make sense why people keep posting information that they cannot back up, but insist are true. It's like someone constantly posting "Rusty Weapons are better in melee than ToV Weapons, and I don't need to back this point up with any evidence". It's quite easy to disprove this.

[Tann]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

jesus christ lmao

Page 11.. a reminder for the topic:

Originally Posted by MossyG [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hey Shamans,

I'm looking at making an iksar shaman because I think they look cool, but wanted to get some experienced solo shamans takes first.
Is missing out on JBB going to hinder me on any solo challenges or is it mostly just for powerleveling yourself?

Cheers Nerds!

[Tann]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

jesus

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

christ

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lmao

The posts are getting longer and longer with every new page

[Troxx]

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