shaman duo

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Str buffs are most important on level appropriate content where your pet level is closer to and below the level. On green content/farm content the pet so out-classes what you’re killing you won’t see the same degree of jump.

“Level appropriate” here can even be defined as xp giving green cons in KC with a 60 max summon water pet. The differences in a zone like KC are most pronounced when fighting Warlords/Bodyguards/pit trash. In higher level areas like Kael arena, SG, Seb, and DN the benefits are more universally obvious.

Cheers and happy hunting.

(Ps: shamans can actually test this out easily over time especially at 60 because they can self buff their 55 pet)

Shady Swashbuckler is a lvl 45 merchant with pretty high AC. Here is just a short run. Two fights each, combined and averaged (one pair of unbuffed, one pair buffed).

Only Celerity: 2 fights @ 834 seconds. 10,766 damage to Shady Swashbuckler (lvl 45 merchant)
Konekn (52 hitting lvl 55 pet) = 12dps. Max hit 36; average hit 20


Maniacal Strength, Focus, & Celerity: 2 fights @ 853 seconds. 10,566 damage to Shady Swashbuckler (lvl 45 merchant)
Konekn (52 hitting lvl 55 pet) = 12dps. Max hit 38; average hit 21

Id parse for longer than that but 31 minutes doing this is watching paint dry...

[7thGate]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shady Swashbuckler is a lvl 45 merchant with pretty high AC. Here is just a short run. Two fights each, combined and averaged (one pair of unbuffed, one pair buffed).

Only Celerity: 2 fights @ 834 seconds. 10,766 damage to Shady Swashbuckler (lvl 45 merchant)
Konekn (52 hitting lvl 55 pet) = 12dps. Max hit 36; average hit 20


Maniacal Strength, Focus, & Celerity: 2 fights @ 853 seconds. 10,566 damage to Shady Swashbuckler (lvl 45 merchant)
Konekn (52 hitting lvl 55 pet) = 12dps. Max hit 38; average hit 21

Id parse for longer than that but 31 minutes doing this is watching paint dry...

Would you be willing to repeat this with Avatar?

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Would you be willing to repeat this with Avatar?

I had it loaded but frankly couldn’t do another 16 mins.

Logically nobody will Avatar a summoned pet so perhaps that’s for an enchanter/shaman to figure out. Even asking for SoN and CoTP is a tall ask considering how few rangers tend to be at raids and are hard pressed to get all the melees.

Not saying it shouldn’t be done. Just gonna let someone else do it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I had it loaded but frankly couldn’t do another 16 mins.

Logically nobody will Avatar a summoned pet so perhaps that’s for an enchanter/shaman to figure out. Even asking for SoN and CoTP is a tall ask considering how few rangers tend to be at raids and are hard pressed to get all the melees.

Not saying it shouldn’t be done. Just gonna let someone else do it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I love CoTP/SoNing pets [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Troxx]

Also agree that cripple makes a difference. It’s a big difference but as DSM points out … the juice just isn’t worth the squeeze on non-raid target. Mana cost for relative return on trivial xp garbage … it’s a waste. Even on harder xp group targets and named the fights are short enough that mana is best spent elsewhere.

How much damage you do to a mob and it does to you is a dynamic of its level/attack/ac and your level/skills/ac/attack. Anything you can do to alter that dynamic and balance will have real in game results.

As DSM said, if it was like a 50hp a 1 sec cast spell I would cast it on all mobs after slow at any level of content.

[Toxigen]

stuff like gwurms its good

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

stuff like gwurms its good

Agreed, GWurms are worth crippling. Anything that is double attacking for 500+ damage per hit is a tough cookie.

[7thGate]

I kind of like this conversation, actually, when its talking about the actual mechanics.

Most of my experience duoing with a shaman has been on Puppet Show. My experience has also been that cripple is fairly high impact, but only worth it on stuff like puppet show because you are fighting a single target for a very long time.

There's a couple techniques I've used there depending on Shaman gear. Safest is to have me tank, shaman logs out/in after debuffing and gently DoTs and we just grind it out. Can do that with a naked Torp Shaman. Slow, but not dangerous. Really well geared Shaman that can tank, torp, spam DoTs while I backstab is just awesome, and I've been pleasantly surprised at the amount that can be added on fights where the DoTs are allowed to tick. There's fights like this one where the shaman pulled 55 DPS with DoTs, melee and pets while we shared tanking.

/GU Tribunal Puppet in 252s, 21793 @86 | Jayya 18185 | Jenekab 2439 | Jallai 1169

They have approx 32K HP, so can back out the shaman contribution that way. Here's an example where I did the same fight with a shaman that didn't DPS at all:

/GU Tribunal Puppet in 471s, 32207 @68 | Jayya 31475 | Riddian 732

One thing I would really like to see parses on at some point is the impact of Avatar on charmed pet DPS, because I suspect its actually a sneaky way a shaman can have a much higher group DPS impact that they would appear on a 2 ench charm pet group since it adds their contribution to other players. I push for Avataring pets on Vindi kills, but I don't have enough samples and didn't track who got what for what fight, and then there's charmed pet breaks and stuff that makes it too hard to compare.

Like, I have Yetarr doing 682 dps vs. Vindi, but he's a big enough pain to get over there and Dictate that I have only a few samples (actually, only 1, which is confusing since I'm almost positive we've used him three times, and I know for sure there should be a low man parse to go with 1 or 2 full raid kills. Maybe I was out of parser range for that one.) He was definitely Avatar'ed, but how much DPS came from that?

I've got Bvellos parses all over the place from 80 (charm breaks + no haste?) to 250 (Avatar, Haste, Torch, no charm breaks, muzzle?) to a ton at the 180 range (normal haste/torch?). But I don't have a break down of when he got Avatar and when he didn't. Are the 205-220ish ones RNG or Avatar pushing things up?

I also really wonder if NPCs STR cap. We had a scout giant with torch+Avatar+Focus+Manicial+SoN+WR+Muzzle kill his enchanter through Rune and Bedlam in 9 seconds once. I wonder if any of that STR did anything. The fight was too chaotic when the drop on Sontalak occurred to tell what actually happened when we used him, but the giant pack whacked him down fast to 90% before the first fear went out and everything fell apart.

[Troxx]

How did you never see a max hit in nearly 1700 seconds of fighting?

That’s weird.

And interesting.

I am at run over to Shady on my 60 shaman later tonight if I have the time.

[7thGate]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How did you never see a max hit in nearly 1700 seconds of fighting?

That’s weird.

And interesting.

I am at run over to Shady on my 60 shaman later tonight if I have the time.

I believe that when AC is sufficiently higher than ATK, you start to lose max hits from the damage interval calc. At the maximum case of infinite AC, I believe you approach 1/2 normal max damage as the max possible.

IIRC from reading hte code, its something like you roll ATK vs. opponents's AC, then you do your roll - opponent's roll. Then you multiply by 20 and divide by the average of opponent's AC + ATK. Add 10, divide by 10, clamp between 0.1 and 2.0, and that's your multiplier. Then you do damage bonus.

So if you have AC 100 and ATK 20, the most you could do is roll a 20 while the opponent rolls a 1. You do 20 * 20 = 400 / (Avg 20 and 100) = 400/60 = 6. 6 + 10 = 16/10 = 1.6 is your max multipler, when it would normally be 2.0.

I remember doing analysis when we used Yetarr vs. Avatar of War, and noted he never max hit. He had 540 hits over the fight, but max hit for 379 when he usually hits for 430. Further analysis showed the top 3 damage intervals were missing, he only hit for 17 distinct values instead of 20.