Warriors are useless in 90% of the games content - Page 29

7thGate · #1 11-16-2023, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can blind flurry drakes in ntov so they run away from the raid and kill everyone. Tested this with bio orb.

Yeah, blinding a flurry is actually the only real raid contribution I've ever made with Blinding Poison III. I stopped a wipe with it once after the CH chain screwed up and it finished eating all the warriors. Nimbled and landed poison, and it wandered off while everyone had a chance to cycle camp.

I got it to land on Dain too, about a 15% success rate, but I don't know if there's any way to actually make that useful. If stalling wasn't a thing it could be used to put him on pause for recovery/med breaks, but I think raid rules kind of block that most of the time.

I did test Karkona didn't summon while blind and untanked, that's interesting about puppets and the range. I might try to test that out a bit more in the future and see if I can get a better understanding on how this works with permarooted mobs, exactly.

enjchanter · #2 11-15-2023, 07:17 PM

I tried the weapon swapping thing today on my warrior with guadralek and Kragg club (just highest dmg thing I have) and I felt like an idiot because warriors are so fucking bad

Troxx · #3 11-15-2023, 11:39 PM

I have a level 60 paladin and 60 warrior. Paladin has NToV Greatspear of Dawn. Warrior has inferior ratio Dain axe.

In defense of the warrior:
-Never really had aggro problems on my warrior. Blips here and there? Yeah it goes with the territory but with 2h white dog aggro being what it is and a stun/dd proc … it’s trivial
-Never did a group with my paladin that wouldn’t have been trivial with my warrior.
-I have done some harder group content with my warrior that was snooze-fest easy but my paladin would have had a tougher time (that disc is godly). These types of scenarios are very uncommon though. They are the exception not the norm.
-Warrior dps is much higher … even factoring massive difference in weapon ratio my two toons have
-warrior takes less damage without disc and there is literally no comparison for the 3 of 7 minutes they evasive is up.

Objectively, Paladin does get the job done better most of the time … at least I know that aggro is 100% always on me. Utility is stellar to boot.

But those implying warriors are “useless in 90% of game content” fall into one of the following buckets

-has never actually owned/leveled/played a well geared warrior
-has never actually played WITH a well geared warrior
-suck at everquest
-is retarded

EverQuest is a really simple game.

Gloomlord · #4 11-15-2023, 11:48 PM

Clearly, Warriors are not "useless". However, they only fulfill the niche of enabling raids to happen. In small group content, they are less optimal than a knight and Monk in the tanking department. They also suck at soloing, which is another big con.

EverQuest is indeed a really simple game. So, I don't know why we can't just agree that Warrior is a poorly designed class.

Troxx · #5 11-16-2023, 12:38 AM

Yeah no, that is simply not the case. Warriors are fine in small group content.

Less optimal than monk? I’ve got one of those at 60 too. A monk in the modern era (even raid geared) wanting to tank and looking for maximum threat is rocking a 29/30 TStaff with a stun proc unless they are relying solely on white damage. I’m using a 42/43 with a stun proc … but also do have a taint button for what it’s worth. I probably am going to have higher dexterity than a comparably geared monk because of race, starting points invested, and intentionally seeking out dexterity on gear. Beyond that, massive hp advantage and disc use.

Maybe it’s because I’m the weirdo who put all available starting points into dexterity and intentionally sought out dex gear … but I can honestly tell you I have never had threat generation frustrations playing p99.

Ripqozko · #6 11-16-2023, 12:41 AM

I dont believe any of yall until DSM reads through 3 hours of logs. I dont want any parses i need pure logs.

DeathsSilkyMist · #7 11-16-2023, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dont believe any of yall until DSM reads through 3 hours of logs. I dont want any parses i need pure logs.

You don't manually read through logs silly. You use basic programming and search tools to parse it yourself. That's what I do. When you have the logs you can separate the data much better, and double check the work. You also get more context as to what happened during the fight. You can see what spells are cast, if you were interrupted with a stun, if you turned off auto attack, etc.

Gameparse isn't going to remove ripostes from a parse, for example. This means your DPS parses are going to be skewed if you are testing something like how much STR affects your DPS. Also, if any bugs exist in Gameparse, you wouldn't know.

Here is a very simple example that you can code yourself and run in browser using https://playcode.io/javascript (Check the console result):

I use Notepad++ to search through the document to find the results that you plug into the array. Doesn't take long at all.

Jimjam · #8 11-16-2023, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gameparse isn't going to remove ripostes from a parse, for example. This means your DPS parses are going to be skewed if you are testing something like how much STR affects your DPS.

When investigating the impact of strength on damage looking at damage per hit removes more variables than looking at dps, especially as Dps can be extrapolated as a factor on damage per hit.

Looking at damage per hit you don’t need to worry about variance in hit rate, parries, blocks, dodges, ripostes, etc. As such ripostes actually just give extra data points rather than taint the data.

Troxx · #9 11-16-2023, 12:42 AM

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Gloomlord · #10 11-16-2023, 12:45 AM

"Fine"? Yes. Optimal? No.

It's fine to bring a Wizard, too, in small group content. They are, however, an incredibly shitty DPS class that only brings evac and mobility to the table.

Unless you're going to tell me now that Warrior isn't as bad as Wizard for small group content. That would be the truth, but that does mean there is a difference between "fine" and "optimal".