Want to Start a Rogue and Just want to Make Sure I Understand a Couple Things

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All the melee classes get a mediocre scaling with stamina, and you want to maximise and ease your way to 255 strength as soon as you can as Rogue, so why does it matter if you go stamina? Unless you're in the top end guilds that can easily acquire the best gear in the game in short order, extra stamina is pointless on a Rogue.

Why does it matter if you go STR when you are capped on STR? I have posted multiple times how easy it is to cap your STR with EC gear and buffs. The logic is simple: Having +100 HP is better than having 300 STR instead of 275 STR. You get zero benefit from both of those STR numbers.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...6&postcount=18

Here is a simple list to get you +100 STR without filling all your slots. Your Gnome Rogue will have 160 STR without buffs. They will be capped with buffs. If you are simply in a group, you don't need 255 STR to output good DPS. I have never seen a group kick a Rogue because they had 160 STR instead of 185 STR.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:GnomeRogueTest - Here is a Magelo someone else made showing how Gnome Rogues with 60 STR will cap on their STR with only FoS. The only difficult piece to get on that Magelo is Strength of the Elements, and you can make up the strength by simply swapping the Coldain Gloves for Gauntlets of Potence.

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Note that str also increases your chance to hit

This is incorrect. STR simply increases the maximum damage you can roll. There is no worn stat that can increase your chance to hit.

[fortior]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is incorrect. STR simply increases the maximum damage you can roll. There is no worn stat that can increase your chance to hit.

Yeah, my mistake. It's just skill which impacts the initial roll to miss/hit. STR increases ATK to the cap of 255 str which impacts the chance to max hit.

[fortior]

By the way if you want to see the effect of whatever stat on dps, you can use https://jklein.me/eqcalc/ or one of the ready-made spreadsheets. Going from 230->255 str is about 4 dps, which is just as much as going from 15->16 damage on your main hand (just non-backstab damage, obviously 16 main hand damage on a rogue would be bonkers).

The effect at lower levels is more pronounced--that is to say, I believe 25 str will net you about 2-4 dps using most calculators at any point, but that value obviously matters more when you're doing 20 dps versus when you're pulling 80. Note that str also increases your chance to hit as well as your max backstab damage, which these calculators can't really effectively estimate since a lot of to-hit chance depends on the type of mob you're hitting. It's a pretty stable, continuous benefit throughout your dpsing life. Best to get it out of the way asap when playing dps, though on a leveling monk I could see not maxing it instantly with minor twinking gear since you want to stay under the weight limit, which is quite restrictive at lower levels. On a rogue you should be at 255 str at all times though.

[Croco]

Oh I have no doubt you don't do things for no reason. The reasons you post are very clear for anyone to see. I admitted no such thing but you absolutely love jumping to conclusions and putting words in peoples mouths that they never said. You do it constantly.

I will not step up and fulfill your challenge. On this you can stand tall and be proud that I'm not willing to waste that kind of time on you. I'm perfectly able to prove my claims. The evidence is there. I've explained to you where I looked and what my methods are. I'm not willing to catch the fish and present them to you. If you would like to fish you are welcome to do so.

Unlike you I do not care about getting the last word but I will respond when you willfully misrepresent something I said and twist it into something else. Another thing you do constantly.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh I have no doubt you don't do things for no reason. The reasons you post are very clear for anyone to see. I admitted no such thing but you absolutely love jumping to conclusions and putting words in peoples mouths that they never said. You do it constantly.

I will not step up and fulfill your challenge. On this you can stand tall and be proud that I'm not willing to waste that kind of time on you. I'm perfectly able to prove my claims. The evidence is there. I've explained to you where I looked and what my methods are. I'm not willing to catch the fish and present them to you. If you would like to fish you are welcome to do so.

Unlike you I do not care about getting the last word but I will respond when you willfully misrepresent something I said and twist it into something else. Another thing you do constantly.

Ah, so it isn't "getting the last word" if you try to correct a misrepresentation. Can that apply to my posts as well? Or do you have another double standard ready at hand? It's amazing that when I get the last word, it's a problem. When you get the last word, it is correcting a misrepresentation.

I am not putting words in your mouth or misrepresenting you. You admitted you can't prove it with your excuses. Saying "I can prove it but I don't want to" is admitting you can't prove it. If you could prove it, you would prove it.

What is happening is you have a bias against me. You are looking for things that you want to fit your narrative, rather than things that actually fit your narrarive. You understand that this will be revealed if you post your "proof", which is why you don't post it.

The best you can hope for is people will simply believe you. This isn't a clever strategy. You do not get to act as judge, jury, and executioner.

Post your proof, or admit you can't.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not putting words in your mouth or misrepresenting you.

You do this with incredible consistency to a fuck ton of people on these forums. I said I would respond to you if you misrepresented me. I didn't say I would try to get the last word if you did so. You don't need to make inferences or read between the lines or try and figure out what I mean from what I'm saying. I speak plainly and I'll tell you exactly what I'm saying and what I mean.

You can choose to interpret what I said as excuses if you want. The truth is that all your posts are there for anyone to see. I'm not going to waste my life going through all 4500+ of them. I did a simple spot check of your last 250 and saw exactly what I thought I would see. You are not worth wasting time on. There is nothing to be gained from doing that. I don't care if you think there's no evidence or not. It's all there plain to see if anyone chooses to go and relive all of your inane drivel.

I'm not trying to convince anyone and I'm not attempting to be clever. You use that word a lot though so I'm thinking being clever is extremely important to you, but who knows I could be wrong maybe you just like that word so you use it all the time. My only bias against you is that you're annoying and I wish you just simply didn't exist on the forums. 90% of the time you add nothing of value to the threads you post in. 5% of the time you rehash and consolidate things that people have already said in the thread, so whether that is valuable is up to the eye of the beholder.

It's very clear that I'm far from the only one that has these opinions. Most people are just so tired by your constant misrepresentation and having to get the last word and twisting the things they say that they just stop engaging with you. To be honest I have a hard time thinking I'll ever engage you in conversation in this forum after this thread.

You don't get to decide what I will or won't do. I've already stated the evidence is there and where to find it, I'm not even telling people they have to leave this specific website. I will not admit that I can't and your attempts to spin me as doing so by way of other things I've said or actions I've taken are incorrect. I've chosen the 3rd option which is you're not worth my time.

Feel free to continue to one up me and/or get the last word in. My traitorous brain has already compelled me to waste way more time on this garbage conversation than I should. I will waste no further time on you. I truly hope you find peace and happiness in this world somewhere off of these forums.

[Pint]

Y'all are doing God's work. It's clear that DSM feeds off of chain posting and defending bad advice and y'all are sustaining and nourishing his addiction.

[Toxigen]

5+ people all with different but good reasons why to go STR and DSM keeps yammering his idealist end-game only bullshit.

[Baldwooky]

Other people believe stamina is better, however the caveats are:
#1 You plan on top end raiding
#2 we still pay attention to this thread which is just DSM hijacked, and not worth replying.

Easy to cap Str, not easy to cap Stam. Its an easy choice for me as a melee main.
Stam lets you stay engaged in AoE fights longer, thats more DPS. Ripping agro off the tank due to poor play and having 100hp won't help. Regular group content, you probably won't even notice. 25 str is 3.7% more damage.

Str isn't worth the points, cause you can max it super cheap or easy. You can never max HP, a rogue would have a very hard time capping stam in full velious raid gear unbuffed. A twink rogue could realistically and viably max str with droppable gear for relatively cheap.

Overall effect on your character if you don't plan on being a raider or have access to the best equipment is minimal.

If you do have access, going STR will harm you in end in that you already have it maxed, any gains won't be seen. But the amount is so low, that player skill and ping delay can make up for it and youll likely see more gains from str during the leveling and grouping time.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Croco, you spent a bunch of time writing paragraphs that say the same thing. You admit you can't provide proof for your claims about me. While you keep saying you don't care about the last word, and you have better things to do, you keep posting. Please stop projecting your own issues on to me. Nobody cares about your silly opinions about me, so please stop wasting peoples time. You are hijacking the thread.

I am not sure how I hijack threads. I never start this or bring up other threads. People attack me for no reason, and I defend myself. The simple solution is to grow up and stop attacking people. I am not sure why you think attacking other posters is proof your opinion is correct.

The truth is still that STA is the better stat for your starting stats, as it is harder to cap. STR is easy to cap in both raid and group play. Rogues do not need 255 STR in groups, and groups will not kick you for having 150 STR instead of 175 STR.

OP has 20k worth of twink gear. We are not discussing a character who has no money and items. In that specific case of having no money or gear, you could argue for STR.