Current state of blue vs. green?

[Wakanda]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You need to touch grass since you've clearly become so immersed that you look at everything through a "competition" and endgame/raiding lens.

A lot of us just want a merge because we enjoy the feeling of a more crowded world in general.

FR tho. I love EQ and could play hours daily, but 100% do not care about raiding. It was fun 25+ years ago when it was hard and scary, but it just doesn’t hit the same in 2025.

When I feel the need to do something scary now I do tough, high risk charm camps 😹

[Viscere]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Visceral and co

rent free etc

[Solist]

Originally Posted by Viscere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

rent free etc

How's TMO?

[Zuranthium]

They need to fix the resist system to be classic before launching a new Green server, and allow DPS racing to be the way to dispute content, as was actually the case in classic prior to the Play Nice Policy. If they do implement the Play Nice Policy (LAME), it should be the actual classic PNP, which states spawns must be shared by whoever wants to take turns killing it.

Red also needs to be merged into Blue, and reopened as the custom classic Everquest server, where we can focus on changing the Everquest coding to be more like the game its meant to be, rather than strictly copying the classic code. Don't need a 3rd museum server, let this one be the place where there can be a real evolution.

[Zuranthium]

Everquest is not about boring ass raids and there is no such thing as competitive raiding without PvP or other mechanisms to reward actual player skill and teamwork. Racing for FTE's is not real skill and the game inherently rewards zergs, because there is no mechanism to prevent it, and it inherently rewards low level gameplay, as the NPC's are too brainless to go attack the priority targets (which is the mere starting layer of higher level gameplay).

[Solist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everquest is not about boring ass raids and there is no such thing as competitive raiding without PvP or other mechanisms to reward actual player skill and teamwork. Racing for FTE's is not real skill and the game inherently rewards zergs, because there is no mechanism to prevent it, and it inherently rewards low level gameplay, as the NPC's are too brainless to go attack the priority targets (which is the mere starting layer of higher level gameplay).

Ok let's just assume you've never done anything on blue competitive, and break down a little bit.

Why I'm engaging with DSMlite I don't know, but here goes.

without PvP or other mechanisms to reward actual player skill and teamwork

Competitive raiding on blue IS player vs player. It is who is better prepared, who is better prepared on the aggregate, who has the highest standards. Actual red PVP in everquest is horrible, and never scaled well with content past classic. In velious it's simply untenable. But you beat your fellow player by being a better organised package.

You do this by mobilising faster, being able to engage faster with less people, being able to sustain longer without optimal class and numerical composition, and being able to pivot from one strategy to another quickly with no explanation needed.

Changing from a pet pull to a mage bomb to a DA toggle to a backtag all in the same 30 second period, and all 5 or 6 of the moving parts all play their part perfectly is what made Vanquish stomp everyone. And there is no barrier to entry to that, thats the beauty of blue raiding. Aside from a couple of bots that are easy to level there is zero barrier to entry. Every guild can practice, train, and execute.

You know all the 'strategies' people use to clear out all the npc's curently aren't like...'just the way' you do it, but they're eroded versions of pretty finessed methods developed during the competitive eras. You think we just did non kos low hp trainups in VP for the lols? It was a forced evolution from kos low hp trainups which evolved from full hp trainups which evolved from multiple people throwing bodies at it trainups which evolved from the no rules eras of moving raids around the zone and trying to kill the opposing raid etc.

People don't kite 6 vulak guards for fun; they do it because you need 6 people pumping more than MT aggro into a mob with linked aggro. It evolved from doing 4-3-2-1 drake engages, which evolved from drake clearing while trying to bump slow vulak+friends and engage 1-2-3-4 mobs at once, which evolved from non linked trainaways, which evolved from backtagging vulak solo unlinked when unrooted. Everything we do, on every single mob on blue/green has a lineage of optimisation. And for some of them several additional levels of optimisation still to come if the competitive edge ever requires it.

Racing for FTE's is not real skill and the game

You've never raced for content have you. Never had a game folder specific to racing, made characters specific to racing, broken down every possible controllable variable to optimise; then done quite literal thousands of practice runs.

I hate that shit too. But to say it took no skill is laughably ignorant. We'd spend 10hours straight practicing the same lines. I love chaotic VP runs with SOW speed. Kael racing is the worst and needs a good looking at.

Then stunningly decided despite being fastest of everyone, to then also likely cheat. He is/was genuinely the quickest dude on the server without scripting a thing. It's a shame, if (I think so) he cheated.

game inherently rewards zergs, because there is no mechanism to prevent it

Change the rules. The rules did not favor zergs for years. Then we changed the rules.
Then we changed the mechanics rooting dragons and leashing some.
Then we changed the mechanics again linking aggro.

Make rules that favor the individual input, not the size of the guild; and add a component of equalising the field to it.

My suggestion is:
Racing from specific points, using only sow speed, using only 200 range insta clicks only, only 1 DA, ban selos and ban ranged attack. That levels the playing field massively. Add an hour lockout. Add a 10min cooldown from TOD before you can earn another lockout. Job done. Bunch of 20-40 man guilds will be having a great time, while 50-100man guilds will also get more than their share of mobs still.

Too many races currently favor massive zergs as they dont reward the race win without a massive roster so the balance of probability is of 2-3 7k tanks, and 20 clerics logging in to stabilise anything, along with 5 quads to train away anything needed.

Lockouts really open up a lot of zones, and more casual strategy. It removes so many barriers, removes a lot of the week to week logistical load, and cuts down massively on consumable use. Some fights in Project Lightning I would use 14-15 wort pots, 9 clicks of each, tanking something waiting on appropriate heal chains. This isn't uncommon or special; its just the dumb shit you have to do to endure instant engages like a Doze. Instead that can be one thin bone wand click, and zero consumables, with 40+mins to set up, kill a couple of wurms and 2 mobs, control an engage nice and steadily etc. Full casual dad spec raiding is awesome when you have lockouts.

as the NPC's are too brainless to go attack the priority targets

If you don't find it rewarding to kill npc's in everquest, you're not challenging yourself by doing it with low enough numbers.

But I agree with you. EQ isn't about the mobs or the gear, it's about the people you play with and the player vs player you get to compete in. The most balanced PVP in EQ is the blue servers in that regard. Killing mobs in the game uncontested is the most boring game you can imagine. When it's competitive engages in the giant sized guilds all the playmakers pretty much AFK once the mob is stable. Noone is interested in killing Vulak #97. We're all interested in ways to compete to secure that mob though.

higher level gameplay

It seems to me you havn't taken part in even mid level gameplay uncontested on these servers except for draft mobs, and thats ok. You've maybe wasted your time on these servers when there was such excellent non competitive options.

The real issue on blue and green is the CSR are also like you, inexperienced, unknowledgeable, not technically minded, not inquisitive, and have always been 'have nots' and think the big bad guys raiding competitively were somehow this elitist club of shitheads. Every guild was just normal folks asked to partake in a few hoop jumping exercises to get prepared, and to try not to stand in the wrong spot too often. EQ isn't hard. The servers thrived when competition was easy to access, fair for the individual, and did not reward being the largest zerg exclusively; only rewarded it ratiometrically to their size.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Competitive raiding on blue IS player vs player. It is who is better prepared. You do this by mobilising faster

That is not real skill, and that isn't Player vs Player. It doesn't show who is better in battle at fighting.

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Changing from a pet pull to a mage bomb to a DA toggle to a backtag all in the same 30 second period, and all 5 or 6 of the moving parts all play their part perfectly is what made Vanquish stomp everyone.

People don't kite 6 vulak guards for fun

Mechanics like that are simply abuses of dumb NPC behavior. It's nothing compared to a game where the NPCs would spawn unpredictably, go attack your casters, and switch targets in a much more intelligent way than the current aggro system. Not to mention if the game had complex combat mechanics, which required players to interact every second with what skills the opponent is using, and to time skills with allies and understand how to manage resources and ever-changing positioning in a fight.

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But to say it took no skill is laughably ignorant. We'd spend 10hours straight practicing the same lines.

That is not high level skill, and it is certainly not any kind of INTERESTING skill. That is simply busywork and mapping out pre-determined NPC behavior.

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EQ isn't about the mobs or the gear

Of course it is, to a large extent. When your melee have weapons that do 2x as much damage and armor that prevents more damage, when your casters have more regen and much larger mana pools, and when everyone has important clickies, your raid force inarguably is able to do more, or with less amount of people, than they otherwise would be able to. It's very dumb that you act like it doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actual red PVP in everquest is horrible

It's far better than PvE, regardless of the flaws. PVP introduces constant danger and more variables, and things that can attack you in more sophisticated ways than a mere NPC, which makes the game world more dynamic and requires more active gameplay and higher intelligence of gameplay.

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The real issue on blue and green is the CSR are also like you, inexperienced, unknowledgeable, not technically minded, not inquisitive

There are certainly admin issues, but you are the person who is inexperienced and unknowledgeable about competitive gaming and what would make an actual good version of EQ.

If you think PvE EQ raiding with the existing code is interesting, it shows you've been doing very little in your life besides repetitive EQ emu's, and pathetically think you've developed some kind of meaningful ability or have achieved something relevant. You haven't.

It also shows you don't give a shit about actual MMORPG's, since raiding is merely one aspect of what the game is supposed to be, and the raiding you are talking about is extremely artificial and breaks the feeling of being in an immersive high-fantasy world.

[Solist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DSMlite Drivel

This is an everquest emulator, it emulates everquest. We're discussing everquest.

If you wan't to talk about other games, let's go do it. But this thread is about two servers that are EQ related.

Thanks for your non everquest related input and comparisons.

I bet you get invited to a lot of parties.

[Allishia]

They should merge both servers and have rotating hot zones /nod

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is an everquest emulator, it emulates everquest. We're discussing everquest.

Indeed, and you show little-to-no comprehension of what EQ is supposed to be. The type of raiding you talk about is NEVER what existed in classic Everquest, nor what the designers ever wanted for the game, nor something that is skillful or interesting for an actual competitive gamer or RPG player. And ofc you continue to ignore the takedowns of all the other dumb rhetoric you tried to push, and fact that PvP creates greater depth of gameplay.

"Competitive raiding" didn't even exist during classic EQ on PvE servers, except in the form of global firsts for killing specific NPC's or getting certain items, which is completely irrelevant now. There was often only 1 guild per server that was capable of doing the top content, and the Play-Nice-Policy dictated rotations between guilds for any contested content (and before the PnP it was DPS racing that determined everything, but it was rare for two guilds with enough of a force to be in the same place at the same time).

If we are talking classic EQ coding/rules only, instead of the best ways to improve the game while maintaining the spirit of what EQ is supposed to be, then the discussion is only about which of these 2 options the raid scene should have: DPS racing or rotations. Nothing else is classic, and my vote is definitely for DPS racing, because that makes the game world more alive.