monk ratios, primary and offhand choices

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Troxx didn't read my posts, and is now grasping for straws, claiming I flip flopped on something. His logic makes no sense here, as he doesn't understand context. Please explain it further. I am sorry you got so excited with your trolling you lost all reason and ability to read.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I'll keep things as simple as possible to show why Troxx is confused, and is taking what I said out of context.

Troxx likes to use the concept of variance in data as a method to discredit all data. Whenever data is provided, he will claim variance has made it unusable in some manner. This variance could be in the parse itself, like a parse was lucky or too short. This variance could be in mob variety, where you must parse 100 mobs before he will recognize a pattern.

He will basically keep asking you to get more data, and then claim it isn't good enough once you've collected the data. He uses this tactic because eventually you get to a point where you cannot collect enough data to satisfy his constantly moving goalposts. At that point he can pretend to be the victor, and move on. This is due to his ego not allowing him to admit he was wrong.

If you take a look at this post: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=402 you will see that I got the same DPS results from a 3 minute parse as I did with two sets of 10 minute parses across two different mobs. The chances of this happening purely by luck is small. This means the average DPS from my data is probably correct for both weapon sets. That is the context for the quote below, where I was looking at the normal distribution average. The "effect" I was referring to can be found here https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=409 :

For the vast majority of mobs, I doubt you will see this effect in any significant way, as my data is comparing a level 5 and a level 50. AoW is one exception to the rule for sure, which everybody has always agreed.

However, it is also possible that you can get a lucky or unlucky parse in any single fight. I was talking about this earlier in the thread:

It is true. If you fight 2 mobs, you'll probably get 1 below average fight, and 1 above average fight with 2h. This averages out to the middle. This is why you always pick whichever weapons have the better average when killing a lot of mobs.

When you are fighting 1 mob that spawns every 7 days, you don't want to get the below average fight. Unless your guild wipes and is able to try again, you won't get a second fight to average it out.

That is why I provided the second set of parses, to ensure that my 3 minute parse wasn't significantly different from the average.

Troxx doesn't seem to realize that two things can be true at once. You can recognize that the normal distribution of DPS between Weapon A and Weapon B is similar. You can also recognize that you will get individual fights that are above or below the average with either weapon. If Weapon A does 30 DPS, and weapon B does 30 DPS, you want to pick the weapon that is less likely to get an unlucky parse. That is all I was saying earlier.

Now, back to the conversation:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've given data showing Troxx is wrong about Corudoth. It is a valid parse target:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=402

I explained to him why he is seeing these results from Corudoth:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=409

If Troxx wants to provide parses of different mobs using the same 1h and 2h setup that puts my conclusion into question, I would love to see it!

[Eisai]

=\ i think we just broke the scroll button on this flip phone.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Eisai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

=\ i think we just broke the scroll button on this flip phone.

I'm impressed you're trying to follow this monstrosity on a flip phone!

[Eisai]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm impressed you're trying to follow this monstrosity on a flip phone!

Hello, my name is Juliet and I'm an addict.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm impressed you're trying to follow this monstrosity on a flip phone!

I am impressed they are still using a flip phone to begin with!

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

==========================
2h IFS parse on Giants.
==========================
16964 damage over 553 seconds = 30.68 DPS with fistweaving

15023 damage over 553 seconds = 27.5 DPS without fistweaving

207 punch swings / 297 crush swings = 70% dual wield chance.

==========================
1h Epic Fist + SoS Giant Parse
==========================
16712 damage over 552 seconds = 30.28 DPS
305 crush swings / 730 punch swings = 42% chance to dual wield.

Damage calculations look good. I'm not going to try to confirm the time duration.

Why do you think the dual wield success rate is only 42% on the 1h parse? Are you sure you did that calculation correctly?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Damage calculations look good. I'm not going to try to confirm the time duration.

Why do you think the dual wield success rate is only 42% on the 1h parse? Are you sure you did that calculation correctly?

16 delay from Epic Fist divided by 28 Delay from SoS is 0.57.

For every 100 Epic Fist Swings, we'd get 57 SoS swings. Dual Wield has a 75% chance to trigger as a level 52 monk with max Dual Wield skill, so 57 * 0.75 = 42.75 Dual Wield attempts.

42 out of 100 is 42%. We got the number spot on funnily enough.

This also works out with the fistweaving result of 70%. The dual wield delay for fistweaving is tied to the 2h's delay, as you always unequip your 2h weapon after a 2h swing. So you should get 75 dual wield attempts for every 100 swings. Because fistweaving is a manual process, it is prone to human error. You'll probably rarely get 75% exactly. I am sure I missed at least a few fistweaves. I think I did well at 70% Dual Wields. That means I only missed 7% of my fistweave chances.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

16 delay from Epic Fist divided by 28 Delay from SoS is 0.57.

For every 100 Epic Fist Swings, we'd get 57 SoS swings. Dual Wield has a 75% chance to trigger as a level 52 monk with max Dual Wield skill, so 57 * 0.75 = 42.75 Dual Wield attempts.

42 out of 100 is 42%. We got the number spot on funnily enough.

Wait, you're assuming a 75% chance to trigger. From the data you logged, what's the actual number? 42% is clearly not the "chance to trigger", it's a different calculation, right?

We should be able to calculate the actual % chance to trigger dual wield, and it should be roughly 75%, right?

Getting 70% instead of 75% makes sense for 2h as you said, since you might have missed some weaves.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait, you're assuming a 75% chance to trigger. From the data you logged, what's the actual number? 42% is clearly not the "chance to trigger", it's a different calculation, right?

We should be able to calculate the actual % chance to trigger dual wield, and it should be roughly 75%, right?

Getting 70% instead of 75% makes sense for 2h as you said, since you might have missed some weaves.

Let me see if I can explain it a bit more clearly, it is kind of confusing. For Monks at least (I don't have another high level dual wield class to test with), they should have a 75% chance to trigger dual wield at level 50 with max Dual Wield Skill.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Skill_Dual_Wield

When the delay of both weapons is the same, you will get 100 primary swings and 100 offhand swings. With a 75% chance to dual wield, you should get 75 dual wield attempts for every 100 primary hand swings.

If your offhand delay is slower, you will get less swings. In the case of SoS, you only get 57 offhand swings for every 100 Epic Fist swings. 75% of 57 is 42 dual wield attempts for every 100 primary hand swings.

So your offhand delay affects how many dual wield swings you end up getting. Generally speaking offhand weapons with slower delays have higher damage, so the higher damage makes up for the less swings. That's why you just put the best ratio weapon you can in offhand.